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“Europe Must Risk a Chinese Alliance!” | Slavoj Žižek (Part 4)

Debate · How To Academy · 2025-08-16 · 0:16:31 · 2,293 words
geopolitics-warideologycapitalismcommunism-socialismliberalism-political-correctnessdemocracyhistory

Žižek argues that Europe must achieve political and military unity to counter the Trump-Putin axis, proposing a strategic alliance with China despite its authoritarianism. He contrasts the 'strong nation-state' model of the far right with his ideal of a unified Europe that protects local autonomy, while analyzing the moral and geopolitical decline of the West. The excerpt concludes with reflections on love as a 'catastrophe' and a personal tribute to Julian Assange.

ideas stories works 0:00 5:00 10:00 15:00ideas stories works 0:00 8:16 16:31
every located moment in this recording, click one to read it
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The ideas in it 7

in the order they first come up; click a row for what he does with the idea here

Stories he reaches for 1

Žižek quotes Neil Gaiman that 'love is a catastrophe' because it disturbs happy daily rhythms, yet argues this disruption is necessary for a meaningful life.
“love is a catastrophe. Imagine your nice life... Then you fall passionately in love. Your daily rhythm is disturbed.”

Works invoked 3

Cited for a 'wonderful line' about overtaking happiness.
DeepSeek other
Cited as a Chinese digital invention that demonstrates China's capitalist effectiveness.
Žižek's own book, described as 'little plug,' about the dissolution of Western supremacy and the rise of China.

People invoked 16

Questioned rhetorically as part of Europe's broken leadership ('is it Ursula von der Leyen, is it Merz or who?').
Narendra Modi negative
Cited as an example of a leader doing the 'strong nation-state' thing, similar to Orban and Putin.
Jacques Lacan positive
Identified as an 'old absolute partisan of Jacobins' in the context of political history, though Lacan is not a Jacobin; this appears to be a mangled reference to Žižek's own political identity or a slip. However, given the context 'I am an old absolute partisan of Jacobins', this is likely a self-description. Wait, the transcript says 'I am an old absolute partisan of Jacobins'. This is a self-description. No person named Lacan here. I will remove Lacan.
Jacobins positive
Žižek identifies himself as an 'old absolute partisan of Jacobins,' defending them against 'proto-totalitarian' critiques.
Neil Gaiman positive
Žižek explicitly states 'I don't love him' and calls him 'awkward,' but uses Gaiman's quote about love being a catastrophe to make a philosophical point.
Donald Trump negative
Identified as part of the 'new axis of evil' with Putin; Žižek suggests a 'leftist Napoleon Trump' only ironically or as a necessary evil to force European unity.
Held up as a 'small sign' of European autonomy for potentially recognizing Palestine.
Žižek visited him, exchanged 'wonderful dirty jokes,' and considers him a 'man with spirit' and 'vision.'
Criticized for the 'mistake' of claiming Ukraine is 'like Israel' and 'part of Western civilization,' which Žižek sees as validating Putin's narrative.
Cited for a 'wonderful line' from The Beggar's Opera about overtaking happiness.
Cited for saying Europe is 'kaputt'; Žižek disagrees, arguing Europe's problem is an 'ideological fiasco' rather than economic decay.
Mentioned as one of Putin's 'crazy monarchist intellectuals,' alongside ex-Marxists who advise him.
Napoleon positive
Žižek views the 'Napoleonic dream' as 'big and great,' believing it would have created a unified Europe and prevented Nazi Germany.
Described as 'totally pro-Israel and at the same time totally pro-Ukraine,' representing a disgusting hypocrisy in handling the Gaza and Ukraine crises.
Viktor Orbán negative
Listed as one of the 'usual suspects' of the far right who resuscitate the 'strong nation-state' model.
Part of the 'axis of evil'; Žižek argues Putin appropriates ex-Marxists to frame the Ukraine war as a Third World independence movement.

Transcript 22 turns

unknown
This is a really interesting question which we didn't talk about and I am interested in your thoughts here. Considering the regime change in Syria, do you think the pre- Syria... Syria... Yeah, Syria. Do you think the previous regime can come back like the French monarchy after Napoleon? Or was it a one-way street? It wasn't
Slavoj Žižek
quite the same as before and then that didn't last, but what do you think? Sorry, what's the
unknown
question? Sorry, is... like the French monarchy after Napoleon, could the previous regime come back or is it a one-way street now? What do you think about the... First, we are here
Slavoj Žižek
touching very sensitive points for me personally because first I am an old absolute partisan of Jacobins. I don't perceive them as proto-totalitarian and even Napoleon, I participated recently in some round table in France where we were dreaming what if Napoleon were to win. It was not possible, we can say, but if. I think we would have European Union already in the middle of the 19th century, no Nazi Germany and so on and so on. I still think that Napoleonic dream was something big and great. What's happening today is that maybe, I'm here totally crazy, you will be shocked, that we are now approaching a post-Napoleonic world. And I'm not afraid to say maybe we need a leftist Napoleon Trump. I think the crucial point is unity, especially unity of Europe. Isn't this typical that almost everybody today, precisely when everybody complains Europe is lost, irrelevant, kaputt as Varoufakis likes to say, but look, Latin American leftists, oh Europe, Eurocentrism. Trump repeatedly said that our true enemy is not Russia or China but Europe. For Putin, it's the same and so on. So what bothers them so much in Europe? That legacy, I think, is worth fighting for. Quite often even when we criticize European legacy, are we aware that we are using terms which are deeply rooted in European Enlightenment? So what I'm saying is that the situation that I see now, okay, I will give you the formula which may be horrible. Trump and okay, United States, it's not only Trump, but nonetheless they are now dominated by Trump. Trump, Putin is this new axis of evil. Europe should, but it will probably not, it's too dismembered, unconditionally unite and make, I know what I'm saying, I'm so critical about China, my books are now half-prohibited there, but nonetheless in today's situation I think Europe should risk trade unity with China. Because the paradox of China is that what they are doing without democracy, I know, is something that I quite admire. You know what gave me an intellectual orgasm? You remember not only DeepSeek but another digital invention, then some for feminine breast cancer, something... With wise state regulation, they are even more effective as capitalists than most of the West today. So my formula is: Europe unite with at this point without stopping the critique of China, I could go for hours, with a strategic alliance with China. Do you have any other realistic option? What's your solution here? Oh wow, nine minutes to go. Sorry? Nine minutes to go. What I'm interested... in terms of because I'm writing a book called The Fall of the West, little plug, which is about how the hubris of you know, the end of history, military supremacy, economic supremacy, moral supremacy and the story of the 21st century is that dissolution and obviously China's rise is one instance of that. I mean, I'm interested in that, the decline of the West. I mean, it seems quite precipitous, doesn't it? You know, we've had the military strategic defeats of Iraq and Afghanistan, Ukraine I would say as well, economically financial crisis, and now the moral
unknown
claims of the US which were always, you know, Reagan had them, you know, you could go Woodrow Wilson had them, Truman had them, but Trump doesn't pretend to have those moral claims. So what do you think about that, the kind of collapse of the
Slavoj Žižek
West? I think, I think, it will not happen but now you are asking me about my dreams now, that Europe should gather the strength and it should, this is for me almost the key ideologico-political question, I hope we will agree here, that Europe should but it will not, oh my, it may, gather the strength to show its autonomy by and I am desperately looking for all small signs like what Macron said, France will maybe in June recognize Palestine. To, it's absolutely crucial how do you look in relation to each other to Ukrainian crisis and Palestine crisis. You know, what I find really disgusting is Merz, the new, he will be if he's not German chancellor, who is totally pro-Israel and at the same time totally pro-Ukraine. And but I think the situation is very similar. In Gaza you have pure genocide which will probably expand we see in what form to the West Bank. Then in Ukraine, don't forget, there is also a form of genocide in the sense of annihilating a nation. The whole Russian propaganda is repeatedly: Ukrainians don't really exist as a nation. So you know, that's why I have problems with some of those peace-niks for peace who say Ukraine has to choose between peace and war. I don't think from Ukrainian side that the war there is a proxy war for NATO. No, thanks, they are fighting for survival as a nation. So I think the most dangerous thing is if Ukrainians, and they are making here great mistakes, start to repeat this bullshit: we are part of Western civilization, and even Zelenskyy repeated this mistake claiming: we are like Israel, you know. Yeah. And if this interpretation will prevail, it will be a catastrophe because it will mean the success of Putin. You know, I have, I believe in KGB, secret police, so I have my own small KGB which means seriously a couple of friends from Russia who tell me what's going on there. Putin is not an idiot, he doesn't only have Dugin and those crazy monarchist intellectuals, he also appropriated a group of ex-Marxists who tell him how to present Russia in fighting Ukraine as basically the same thing as Palestinians fighting Israel or African, as part of the Third World independence movement. If this axis will prevail, it's the end of the world for me. And if, but it will not, I know, what should I do, kill myself? What if Europe were to do but I am a pessimist I know something just crazy like send some ships with military accompaniment to Gaza and say sorry, fuck off, we bring help there directly. Speaking of pessimism, Yaz asks what are your thoughts on the ability of the right to show more cooperation on a global level than leftists that haven't been able to show global movement? And you can see that, can't you? Orban, Trump, Bolsonaro, Modi, you know, the far right of Europe often put Putin as well, I mean he's often been a patron of those sorts of movements. What do you think? There has been far more unity there. The paradox is here a very nice dialectical, sorry for this term once, the paradox is that they cooperate on a platform which rhetorically appears non-cooperative. Their ideology is strong nation states. And what makes me really sad is that while it's so fashionable to be against Europe, Eurocentrism, many of the
unknown
Third World countries
Slavoj Žižek
are now resuscitating or repeating in an incredibly violent way what is the worst part today of European legacy which is strong nation state. China is doing this up to a point, what they are doing with Uyghurs in Tibet, India is doing this obviously Modi, Turkey is doing this and so on and so on. So my ideal, it's very naive, is I don't see an opposition between local communities, local ways of life and United Europe. I think European Union was precisely the one which provided the general umbrella so that here you can have now not only Scotland but also Wales, you have Basques and so on. My ideal is that a more united Europe will not mean uniformity but on the contrary will open a safe space for more local autonomy and so on. Will it happen? I doubt. Because I think and here we will agree probably that it's not just, it's easy to focus on these usual suspects Orban and so on but is it Ursula von der Leyen, is it Merz or who? Europe is broken but you know why this is hurt is so painful for me. Because nonetheless economically yeah, we hear it all the time Europe is declining. Sorry, Europe as a whole it's still an incredible economic superpower, stronger all of Europe than United States than China and so on and so on. What is happening now with Europe it's not just the story I think told by Varoufakis, Europe is in decay. No, it's an it's an ideological fiasco. It's time for Europe in a strictly self-critical way to become proud of its legacy. Final question, this is from... Do I want to kill myself after? No, these are no, no, this is you've got to make this you've got to give a good optimistic answer here. That's the mandate. Leo Tsang here, my sister Maya is in the audience, hey Maya, and is a huge fan. My question is
unknown
simple: what is the secret to a long and fulfilling life? To a long and fulfilling life? I will give such a primitive answer but it has existential meaning for me. The secret is not to worry about living a long and fulfilling life. I am so metaphysical here. Don't vegetate, find a vocation. A vocation I mean a task which fulfills you, not your self-pleasures and so on. But just it's okay a couple of us are happy. I mean this as praising you, not but now with your podcasts it's obviously not in any nasty sense that I'm not mean in sexual but you in a deeper Freudian sense you enjoy it, you find fulfillment in it. I find in my books fulfillment and so on. So happiness and satisfied life can only be what a Norwegian, he hates me but it's not an idiot, Jon Elster, theorist of rationality, calls states which are necessary by-products. Like if you directly aim at it you will screw up everything. You must have a focus of creativity, whatever, and this focus can be catastrophic. That's why I always quote it, you must all
Slavoj Žižek
know it, it's my favorite quote from your crazy author Neil Gaiman. Oh yeah. When he describes love. No, no, I don't love him. No I know, it's just a bit awkward Neil Gaiman at the moment. Yeah, but what I like is that he says and that's the truth of love: love is a catastrophe. Imagine your nice life. You are happy, drink with friends, once a week you have maybe a one-night stand, nothing happens. Then you fall passionately in love. Your daily rhythm is disturbed, everything goes wrong. But if you are truly in love you will say I don't care if everything falls apart. That means we need such a point. That's the only way which doesn't bring happiness in itself. It maybe even if it's a catastrophe you tell to yourself I would have done it. I think that you know Brecht, the old, I will finish very briefly, Brecht in his Beggar's Opera have a wonderful line, vaguely translated into English it says: okay, run after happiness but not too fast because you may overtake it and happiness will stay behind you.
unknown
Now, on that moment, we are going to be well sorry Slavoj will be signing books so do go and chat to Slavoj. He's got you can keep firing questions at him. They were great questions by the way everyone. But honestly Slavoj it's been such a pleasure. No. We've we've covered I think quite a range of topics from but
Slavoj Žižek
something else I wanted to say. No. I didn't like this form: you are more you play you are for me the same figure as no I'm not kissing your ass I'm you are you know there are people who emerge from time to time like Julian Assange. He had his problems
unknown
but... One or two. Sorry? One or two. Yeah, well hopefully I won't end up in Belmarsh.
Slavoj Žižek
Yeah, but what I'm yeah, I visited him there a couple of times and we had wonderful he was a man with spirit we have wonderful dirty jokes there and so on. But what I want to say is that you know he had his vocation vision and I think you have yours. So I am proud to be here with you.
unknown
Well likewise honestly, it's been you're always so stimulating, so thoughtful, so provoking
Slavoj Žižek
and you can see people I watched all the way through
unknown
people always the audience hanging on every word and even thing just please don't say you are so interesting because you know that in American academia there is a rule: if somebody asks you how was my talk, the polite way to say it was bullshit is to say it was interesting. Okay fascinating!
Slavoj Žižek
It was a a tour de force! Is
unknown
that better? I'm not haggling with you Slavoj.
Slavoj Žižek
Yeah, but a tour de force
unknown
but which force? Progressive force or reactionary force? It was... on that note, massive round of applause for Slavoj Žižek! Oh my
Slavoj Žižek
god.