Hegel and Hardcore Pornography
Talk · zizekpodcast.com ·
2022-02-15 · 1:01:18 · 6,930 words
ecology-climatecapitalismcommunism-socialismideologygeopolitics-wartechnology-ai-cyberspacereligion-theologyeconomicsliberalism-political-correctnesseveryday-life
In this podcast conversation (likely recorded early 2022), Žižek ranges across ecology, capitalism, and left politics from his base in Slovenia. He argues that acknowledging climate catastrophe verbally while failing to act is itself a form of fetishist denial, and that the correct response requires state power and global cooperation rather than local anarchism. He diagnoses contemporary capitalism as moving from profit to rent via privatized commons and corporate neofeudalism, critiques neoliberalism as a myth that masks growing state power, and defends a minimal communist horizon defined simply as the social order that could actually deliver what even official media demand. Secondary threads include the privilege embedded in striking, the complexity of immigration, media censorship of the left, and the Catholic Church's hypocrisy on sexuality.
every located moment in this recording, click one to read it
The ideas in it 11
in the order they first come up; click a row for what he does with the idea here
Used as an illustrative analogy: the acute phase passes quickly but the lingering effects are the real obscure problem, a structural parallel to ideological and political crises.
as “fetishist denial”
Admitting a catastrophic fact (climate change, approaching comet) verbally while one's actions proceed as if it were not true, the very act of articulating the problem substitutes for responding to it.
as “principled opportunists”
Radical leftists who refuse any compromise or partial reform on principled grounds, thereby in practice serving those in power by preventing any real change.
Marx's concept extended here to cover digital and communicative commons, platforms, data, mediums of communication, which are privately owned yet remain shared infrastructure everyone must use.
as “from rent to profit and back to rent”
Žižek's historical schema: classical capitalism moved from feudal rent toward industrial profit; today's digital-platform capitalism is reversing that trajectory, with billionaires like Gates deriving wealth from owning commons rather than exploiting labor.
as “corporate neofeudalism”
The contemporary configuration in which mega-corporations own privatized commons (data, platforms, infrastructure) and extract rent from users rather than profit from wage-labor.
as “precarious worker as pseudo-entrepreneur”
The ideological operation by which precarious contract workers who own their own tools are sold their exploitation as 'freedom' and individual entrepreneurship, preventing class solidarity.
The paradox that in contemporary precarious capitalism, going on strike without risking one's livelihood has become available only to relatively secure, well-paid state employees, the traditional symbol of workers' resistance is now a marker of privilege.
as “valorized vs. non-valorized work”
Marxist distinction between labor that produces surplus value within capital's circuit (valorized) and unpaid or informal work, domestic labor, family assistance, that sustains capitalist valorization without entering it.
as “exploitation of existence”
A form of exploitation beyond wage-labor in which capital destroys the conditions of existence (land, environment, community) of people who are not even formally employed by it.
as “communism out of despair”
Žižek's self-description of his communist position: not utopian idealism but the minimal demand that the existing social order actually deliver the global cooperation and solidarity that even mainstream media acknowledge is necessary.
Stories he reaches for 3
At Glasgow, leaders including Prince Charles said almost the right things about climate urgency, but the collective effect was that talking about the problem replaced doing anything about it.
“it was as if if we talk enough about it we will not really have to do anything”
Žižek jokes that he loves the format of late Platonic dialogues where Socrates monologues and the interlocutor just affirms every fifteen minutes, using it to acknowledge and mock his own tendency to dominate conversations.
“One guy Socrates talks all the time and his partner just says every ten minutes, quarter of an hour, by Zeus, so it is Socrates”
The record temperatures in Vancouver were caused by global circulation shifts, not local factors, proving that purely local environmental politics cannot address problems whose causes are planetary.
“the causes are global... you will not find the causes of that temperature in your immediate environment”
Works invoked 4
Don't Look Up film
Not called a great film but said to make 'a good critical point'; Žižek defends it against misreadings and uses it as his central illustration of fetishist denial of climate change by the liberal establishment.
Called the 'true manifesto of neofeudalism' and the most horrifying text Žižek has read recently, a vision of frictionless common space that is privately owned and controlled.
Mentioned in passing, Žižek says he has never watched his own Pervert's Guide movies because he finds himself intolerable on screen.
Powell's Books other
Called 'maybe the best bookstore in United States' while praising Portland as a livable city-scale environment.
People invoked 17
Bill Clinton negative
Appears in Don't Look Up as background context for the liberal establishment character, used to make the point about liberal complicity.
Called an 'idiot' while also noting he says the right things about climate at Glasgow, the combination illustrates fetishist denial: correct words, no action.
Jodi Dean positive
Named alongside Varoufakis as convincing Žižek that neoliberalism was always partly a myth.
Rafael Correa positive
The previous Ecuadorian president lost power for trying to limit mining companies' destruction of indigenous people's environment, cited as an example of exploitation of existence as political reality.
Donald Trump negative
Referenced dismissively as someone who called Slovenia a 'shit hole country' despite his wife being from there; middle-class Trump supporters were his biggest economic losers.
Álvaro García Linera positive
The ex-Vice President of Bolivia; Žižek 'really appreciates him' and cites his account of how the pandemic proved the indispensability of the state.
Justin Trudeau negative
Disappointed that Trudeau allowed fracking and extractive industries to continue; some credit given for parliamentary committees on indigenous residential school atrocities.
George Orwell positive
Cites a 1937 Orwell text as more true than ever: leftists talk about changing the world but fear it would actually change.
Bernie Sanders positive
Praised for addressing real economic interests directly without the ideological distractions of identity politics; credited as a product of the Occupy Wall Street moment.
Julian Assange positive
Called 'my good friend'; cited for the point that Google is a private counterpart to the NSA, an illustration of state-corporate surveillance fusion.
Mark Zuckerberg negative
His Meta manifesto is called 'the true manifesto of neofeudalism', the most horrifying text Žižek has read recently, presenting private control as frictionless communal space.
Yanis Varoufakis positive
A friend who helped convince Žižek that neoliberalism was always a myth; Žižek credits him (with Jodi Dean) and notes Varoufakis goes even further claiming it is no longer capitalism. Žižek also makes a ribald joke about his name.
Bill Gates negative
Used as the paradigm example of rent-based capitalism: his wealth comes from owning a digital common rather than from exploiting labor in the classical sense.
Žižek has a 'problem' with AOC's conditional support for Biden but defends her against critics who said Biden was the same as Trump, pragmatic situational assessment.
Žižek is 'so critical of Biden' but argues his infrastructure/environment proposals would have been worth pushing him on rather than opposing outright.
Her fictional President in Don't Look Up, shown embracing Bill Clinton, is used to identify the film's target as the liberal establishment rather than Trump deniers.
Noam Chomsky positive
Called 'my great enemy' and 'my enemy' ironically, but Žižek agrees with him that there is no time to wait for authentic revolution and that Occupy Wall Street laid the groundwork for Bernie Sanders.
What it argues
fetishist denial of climate change — knowing without actingstate power as necessary tool against neoliberal mythologyfrom profit to rent: corporate neofeudalism and privatized commonsprecarious labor and the dissolution of working-class solidaritycommunism as minimal global cooperation, not utopiaimmigration as symptom of Western military interventionCatholic Church hypocrisy on sexuality and pedophilia
Dialectical moves 7
“admitting how bad the situation is works in itself as fetishist denial — you admit it, you say it, but nothing happens”
The very act of articulating catastrophe can function as a substitute for action, making verbal acknowledgment a form of denial rather than its opposite.
“what is the symbol of workers' resistance, a strike, becomes a privilege”
The traditional instrument of working-class power has been inverted: in precarious capitalism, only the secure can afford to strike, making it a marker of privilege rather than resistance.
“neoliberalism was always up to a point a myth — look at what is really happening: states are getting stronger and stronger”
The supposedly anti-statist neoliberal order was always premised on strong state action; its apparent anti-statism was a weapon deployed against weaker countries while developed states remained interventionist.
“precarious which means for them new freedom — you are not a wage worker, you are a kind of individual small entrepreneur”
What appears ideologically as liberation from wage-labor is in fact a form of exploitation without social protection, sold to workers as entrepreneurial freedom.
“I am a communist out of despair — just listen to the official media, they are all saying we need global cooperation”
Communism is not a utopian demand opposed to the mainstream but rather the minimal condition for delivering what even existing institutions declare necessary, the mainstream already implicitly demands communism.
“the leftists like to talk about changing the world but what they are really afraid of is that the world would really change”
Left talk about transformation paradoxically functions as a defense against actual transformation, the desire for change is itself a way of managing the anxiety that real change would produce.
“a move to the left is the only way to save what is worth saving in liberalism”
Liberal values cannot be defended by defending liberalism; only a leftward move can save them from being hollowed out by corporate neofeudalism.
Claims 16
asserts
The dominant attitude toward climate change among those in power is not outright denial but fetishist denial — verbally acknowledging the crisis while acting as if it does not exist.climate change denial / ideology
reframes
The film Don't Look Up was misread by the liberal left as targeting Trump deniers; its real target is the liberal establishment that acknowledges catastrophe while doing nothing.Don't Look Up / liberal ideology
asserts
Neoliberalism was always partly a myth used by developed countries to pressure the global South while actually maintaining strong states domestically; the pandemic exposed this definitively.neoliberalism
asserts
The state is a necessary and underappreciated tool for the left — the pandemic showed that only the state could provide economic security when everything else failed.the role of the state
rejects
The anarchist-left idea that authentic politics happens at a distance from the state and through local community organization is insufficient for global crises whose causes are structurally global.anarchist localism
asserts
Contemporary capitalism is increasingly organized around rent extracted from privatized commons rather than profit extracted from wage-labor.capitalism / political economy
asserts
Communism should be defined minimally as the social order actually capable of achieving the global cooperation that even official mainstream institutions admit is necessary.communism
asserts
The working class today must be redefined to include precarious workers, non-valorized domestic and informal workers, and populations whose conditions of existence are destroyed by capital — not just wage laborers.working class / Marxist political economy
reframes
The open-borders position of left-liberals misdiagnoses the immigration problem; the root causes (Western military intervention) and the class composition of migrants (relatively privileged, not the truly poor) are ignored.immigration / left-liberal politics
asserts
Those in power benefit from conflict between lower-class natives and immigrants because it allows them to pose as enlightened mediators while the structural causes of poverty go unaddressed.immigration politics / ruling class ideology
asserts
People systematically vote against their material interests not from irrationality alone but because ideological mechanisms redirect economic grievances toward scapegoated others.populism / ideology / political psychology
asserts
Zuckerberg's Meta manifesto is the true manifesto of neofeudalism — it proposes a common social space without contradiction that is privately owned and subtly controlled.Meta / neofeudalism / technology
asserts
The Catholic Church's public campaigns against homosexuality are obscenely hypocritical given its own institutional record of pedophilia.Catholic Church / sexuality
asserts
A move to the left is the only way to save what is worth saving in liberalism, because without it, corporate actors like Zuckerberg will come to control our common space.liberalism / the left
asserts
The striking workers in Slovenia today are paradoxically the most privileged — stable, well-paid state employees — while truly precarious workers cannot afford to strike.strikes / labor / precarity
asserts
Nationalization without proper social control merely creates new spaces for corruption, so selective private competition under strict social regulation is preferable to simple state ownership.nationalization / socialism
Quotes 10
“it's not that you have to deny knowledge, admitting how bad the situation is works in itself as fetishist denial, you know, like you admit it, you say it but nothing happens”Slavoj Žižek · fetishist denial of climate change
“the leftists like to talk so much about how we have to change the world but what they are really afraid is that the world would really change”Slavoj Žižek · left's fear of actual change
“Isn't this isn't this very sad that what is the symbol of workers' resistance, a strike, becomes a privilege.”Slavoj Žižek · strike as privilege under precarious capitalism
“I am a communist out of despair. I'm asking people just listen to the official media, they're all saying idiots like Prince Charles are saying this, we need global cooperation solidarity.”Slavoj Žižek · communism out of despair / minimal communism
“Do you seriously think that the existing order global socio-political order will be able to do this?”Slavoj Žižek · the impossibility of global cooperation without systemic change
“he owns one of our commons and we are paying him rent. Double rent, not just this financial... we also allow ourselves to him to collect data about us”Slavoj Žižek · digital rent / privatized commons
“you are precarious which means for them new freedom you can search for contract here there you are a kind of a individual small entrepreneur”Slavoj Žižek · precarity sold as freedom / ideology of gig economy
“a move to the left is the only way to save what is worth saving in liberalism otherwise Zuckerbergs and others will control our space”Slavoj Žižek · left politics as the only defense of liberal values
“He proposes a new common space without social contradiction we all smoothly function there yeah fuck it but it's owned by him controlled”Slavoj Žižek · Meta / Zuckerberg as neofeudal manifesto
“those in power love immigrants not too many because usually unfortunately ordinary people often feel threatened by them... nothing those in power like more than one part of the lower classes and another part in conflict”Slavoj Žižek · ruling class manipulation of anti-immigrant sentiment
Transcript 40 turns
Slavoj Žižek
Strikes often in Slovenia, at least, they're as a rule strikes of the privileged state employees in what sense privileged. They are relatively well paid and they have a stable permanent job. They don't have this precarious anxiety of precariousness, what will happen and so on and so on. Isn't this, isn't this very sad that what is the symbol of workers' resistance, a strike, becomes a privilege. Usually podcast guys want to appear to be intellectuals, books. I think you are my ideal. Maybe you are really an intellectual but want to cover up this by pretending to be an ordinary guy and so on and so on. You know, because it was a joke when I was young that the ideal in high school, you know, was to have a learned book, Hegel, Marx, but just the cover, inside it's hardcore pornography. So you are doing the opposite, you know, like outside pornography so that people say he's a normal guy like us, but inside it's Hegel's logic and so
Strikes often in Slovenia, at least, they're as a rule strikes of the privileged state employees in what sense privileged. They are relatively well paid and they have a stable permanent job. They don't have this precarious anxiety of precariousness, what will happen and so on and so on. Isn't this, isn't this very sad that what is the symbol of workers' resistance, a strike, becomes a privilege. Usually podcast guys want to appear to be intellectuals, books. I think you are my ideal. Maybe you are really an intellectual but want to cover up this by pretending to be an ordinary guy and so on and so on. You know, because it was a joke when I was young that the ideal in high school, you know, was to have a learned book, Hegel, Marx, but just the cover, inside it's hardcore pornography. So you are doing the opposite, you know, like outside pornography so that people say he's a normal guy like us, but inside it's Hegel's logic and so
unknown
on. Okay, so first give me instructions. How does this work? Do you ask me questions or how? Oh no no, but wait a minute. These are
on. Okay, so first give me instructions. How does this work? Do you ask me questions or how? Oh no no, but wait a minute. These are
Slavoj Žižek
my old jokes, I use them, but pornography I think is, I'm not kidding, extremely interesting topic to study because it's, you know, you would have deemed you see everything etc. etc., but it's the most censored thing you can imagine. You know that I okay, you can ask me later if you want, pornography, even with capitalism commodification blah blah, but I think it's not capitalism that although it's supposed to be like wild, you do what you want, it's maybe the most strictly regulated, you know.
my old jokes, I use them, but pornography I think is, I'm not kidding, extremely interesting topic to study because it's, you know, you would have deemed you see everything etc. etc., but it's the most censored thing you can imagine. You know that I okay, you can ask me later if you want, pornography, even with capitalism commodification blah blah, but I think it's not capitalism that although it's supposed to be like wild, you do what you want, it's maybe the most strictly regulated, you know.
unknown
Yeah, but yes, but I this is not a bad joke, you know, I never, I never not it's not narcissism arrogance, I never watched any of my Pervert's Guide movies because it's very personal. I hate myself with all my picks and this unclear pronunciation so much on screen, you know, I it's intolerable for me. Okay, so tell me how do we do? You ask me question, I answer, do you have a fixed formula blah blah, how does it
Yeah, but yes, but I this is not a bad joke, you know, I never, I never not it's not narcissism arrogance, I never watched any of my Pervert's Guide movies because it's very personal. I hate myself with all my picks and this unclear pronunciation so much on screen, you know, I it's intolerable for me. Okay, so tell me how do we do? You ask me question, I answer, do you have a fixed formula blah blah, how does it
Slavoj Žižek
work usually? It's very sorry yes because it's here, I have this is an old joke already for half a year I think I have all the COVID symptoms without effectively having it, or the other way, because now with Omicron it's fashionable to have asymptomal COVID, no? But I don't know how it is with you. Here in Slovenia something a little bit darker is happening. Usually the COVID itself, the illness, passes in a couple of times, it's nothing, you know. But then effects of so-called long COVID enter. Like people who thought after one week it's over, then they are tired, they get trouble breathing, all that stuff. This is the really obscure thing. But listen, the last
work usually? It's very sorry yes because it's here, I have this is an old joke already for half a year I think I have all the COVID symptoms without effectively having it, or the other way, because now with Omicron it's fashionable to have asymptomal COVID, no? But I don't know how it is with you. Here in Slovenia something a little bit darker is happening. Usually the COVID itself, the illness, passes in a couple of times, it's nothing, you know. But then effects of so-called long COVID enter. Like people who thought after one week it's over, then they are tired, they get trouble breathing, all that stuff. This is the really obscure thing. But listen, the last
unknown
thing, first I talk too much, I need a domina. Okay, you are not a domina but you know what I mean. Stop me at any point and
thing, first I talk too much, I need a domina. Okay, you are not a domina but you know what I mean. Stop me at any point and
Slavoj Žižek
so on, otherwise it would be, you know, this is my standard joke. You never read philosophy. You know, late dialogues of Plato, you know how they look? This is my favorite form of dialogue. One guy Socrates talks all the time and his partner just says every ten minutes, quarter of an hour, by Zeus, so it is Socrates and so forth. So let's not do that bit brutal and second thing this is not live. Okay then okay I will just be a little bit more careful, you know, so that we don't go to no no. Are we already now available to so-called
so on, otherwise it would be, you know, this is my standard joke. You never read philosophy. You know, late dialogues of Plato, you know how they look? This is my favorite form of dialogue. One guy Socrates talks all the time and his partner just says every ten minutes, quarter of an hour, by Zeus, so it is Socrates and so forth. So let's not do that bit brutal and second thing this is not live. Okay then okay I will just be a little bit more careful, you know, so that we don't go to no no. Are we already now available to so-called
unknown
ordinary working
ordinary working
Slavoj Žižek
classes or will you put me on or out? No no, but what I mean if it's live, can they see us already now? Oh then let's okay then sorry guys, I am serious now
classes or will you put me on or out? No no, but what I mean if it's live, can they see us already now? Oh then let's okay then sorry guys, I am serious now
unknown
philosopher
philosopher
Slavoj Žižek
and so on. No no no, but nonetheless, you know, unfortunately okay let's begin with a serious point. Unfortunately my point is double here. First, you know, that was already the problem with that movie which I'm not saying it's a great movie but it makes a good critical point and it was typically I think misread, misinterpreted by the standard liberal left, Don't Look Up, we've all seen it, you know. They practically assumed that the target are these Trump deniers and so on. No, it's much more subtle. The President, Meryl Streep, she is seen remember in one photo in the background embracing Bill Clinton. She's simply democratic and what it shows is the
and so on. No no no, but nonetheless, you know, unfortunately okay let's begin with a serious point. Unfortunately my point is double here. First, you know, that was already the problem with that movie which I'm not saying it's a great movie but it makes a good critical point and it was typically I think misread, misinterpreted by the standard liberal left, Don't Look Up, we've all seen it, you know. They practically assumed that the target are these Trump deniers and so on. No, it's much more subtle. The President, Meryl Streep, she is seen remember in one photo in the background embracing Bill Clinton. She's simply democratic and what it shows is the
unknown
even if you take it seriously but you don't act on it, act on your
even if you take it seriously but you don't act on it, act on your
Slavoj Žižek
the the attitude of those in power depicted in the movie is
the the attitude of those in power depicted in the movie is
unknown
not that of outright denial, conspiracy theories, but precisely the way those who admit it, yeah
not that of outright denial, conspiracy theories, but precisely the way those who admit it, yeah
Slavoj Žižek
yeah comet is approaching, but deny it in their activity, how they act and that's what is going on today. I always
yeah comet is approaching, but deny it in their activity, how they act and that's what is going on today. I always
unknown
take this example, you remember it was horror that
take this example, you remember it was horror that
Slavoj Žižek
couple of months ago the Glasgow conference on global warming. They were all saying almost, not quite, the correct thing.
couple of months ago the Glasgow conference on global warming. They were all saying almost, not quite, the correct thing.
unknown
Prince Charles stands and says you know all those I find them so suspicious metaphors of time,
Prince Charles stands and says you know all those I find them so suspicious metaphors of time,
Slavoj Žižek
we are one minute to midnight to breakdown to noon blah blah blah, but it was all just it was as if if we talk enough about it we will not really have to do anything, you know. It's that it's not that you have to deny knowledge, admitting how bad the situation is works in itself as fetishist denial, you know, like you admit it, you say it but nothing happens and here maybe you've seen it or our
we are one minute to midnight to breakdown to noon blah blah blah, but it was all just it was as if if we talk enough about it we will not really have to do anything, you know. It's that it's not that you have to deny knowledge, admitting how bad the situation is works in itself as fetishist denial, you know, like you admit it, you say it but nothing happens and here maybe you've seen it or our
unknown
listeners in some of my texts I often quote it, an excellent point which I
listeners in some of my texts I often quote it, an excellent point which I
Slavoj Žižek
think today is more true than ever from an early text by George Orwell '37 I think, where he says the leftists like to talk so much about how we have to change the world but what they are really afraid is that the world would really change. You know, like you especially I don't know how the situation is in Canada but I have a problem with AOC, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, but when she conditionally supported Biden all that stuff blah blah, I got the point but some of her critics I didn't agree with them because they said no Biden capital blah blah he will even worse or the same as Trump. You know what's the problem? Here I agree with my enemy haha Chomsky who said we don't have time to wait for some authentic revolution or whatever. The situation ecologically and so on is so catastrophic you know that without any illusions of course we will be again and again disappointed but we should just grab whatever we can. That's why I don't like of course I don't like opportunists but I also don't like what I call principled opportunists. You know these radical leftists who whatever of course you make compromises you try to do they say no you just work for the capital, this is a trick of those in power not to change things really and so on and so on. No, I think would you agree? The correct thing was Biden proposed some things which in spite of all I'm so critical of Biden in spite of all his problematic point would have been good, all those trillions for environment and so on. We should just not so much support him as hold him how do you put it in English by his word you know, let's see if he will really do it because he's already making compromises. The other thing where now I'm instantly provoking you and our public is I think we should learn to appreciate state. It's so fashionable today to claim you know state is the ultimate enemy by radical left all authentic politics takes place at a distance from state. But you know who is my source here? This will be probably surprised in rehabilitation of the state. You know Alvaro García Linera? I really appreciate him the ex Vice President of Bolivia. He described in a short text wonderfully the situation when when the pandemic exploded. He said ordinary lives were perturbed, people were losing jobs, companies went broke, international cooperation we know what happened everybody for himself even Europe European Union didn't quite work blah blah. So the only thing that we had, there were important local mobilizations and so on, but the only thing we had was state. We expected from the state, you know, to print money, to provide for you. So yes state is alienated blah blah blah, but it's nonetheless an apparatus that if we can use it we should use it. Don't underestimate it. Second thing, especially I'm here referring to you and I hope some of your listeners in Vancouver. I love Vancouver but you know what makes me sad with my bourgeois sensibilities? Incidentally my son who always sarcastically attacks me you know. Do you remember in that upper class downtown and it's very sad this isn't the downtown on that island now a place where you almost almost cannot afford to live no? Is the rich people from Japan, South Korea, even China and so on no? And I remember maybe you know it somewhere there in the very center of downtown there is a small cafeteria called Flying Pig and my son so nicely at the time said look dad there is a cafeteria there whose title is Slavoj on an airplane meaning. But what I want to say is that how did you survive or our listeners if we are from your if they are from your area, you remember last summer you approached almost degrees? Yes here we need not only state but even more international cooperation because listen some of stupid anti-state leftists like to say no state manipulates ecological data, the only guy we person we can trust are local people investigating looking into companies which with which ruin our environment which pollute and so on and so on. Yeah of course but that's not by far not enough a point. Look at Vancouver I don't know but probably maybe you are you in your area since kind of a I don't know liberal city blah blah, you are not even probably so bad ecological sorry I'm still there I'm there yes yes I'm sorry because the image is mine yes. So what I want to say is that no you shouldn't as much as you look into your immediate environment there, you will not find the causes of that temperature, the causes are global. It's a global perturbation of how air circulates towards the north. Even in northern Siberia in the coldest city on the earth they had degrees Celsius which is close to in Fahrenheit. So what I'm saying is that this is the proof that you know this so popular local approach you know like no this anarchist vision of we should begin at the local level and then gradually through forms of cooperation go up. Yeah but we already live in a global universe again where for example what happened in Vancouver, yes you had consequences there but it was an effect of something that went on globally and for which probably I don't know how the air circulates there other parts of the world are much more responsible you know. But to finish you know why I like cities like Vancouver because we have in Europe this joke you know this joke that son asks his father dad why don't they build cities in the countryside where the air is much better you know. Vancouver comes close to me, there are others like Bergen in Norway such a city you know where you are in a city but not so far you can see mountains there okay I talk too much. But you see my point? No local approach, use global approach, use every every mean you can every mean necessary. Here I will give you a totally crazy answer for which I'm provoking but seriously. What neoliberalism? It is clear I was convinced by my friends not totally I have doubts but nonetheless Yanis Varoufakis, Jodi Dean and others that first neoliberalism was up to a point always a myth. It was a notion that the developed countries used to put pressure on poor African countries or third world countries like diminish the state, allow free competition which means allow our companies to exploit nature in your but if you look closely what is happening in the last decades, my god the states are really getting stronger and stronger. Not of course healthcare and so on they try to pull out there. But if you look at really successful in capitalist terms, I'm not trying to sell any leftist ideology here, countries like think about I don't know not so much China as don't forget others, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore. This is not liberal capitalism. This is extremely strong role of the state which in a very planned way selects okay we will support these industries, that industries and so on and so on and they do something which Western liberal democracies because of their electoral system cannot do it. I'm horrified by China I'm no fan of them but I met once a Chinese guy, an official guy who made a point who told me listen with you it's a problem you just worry about next two years four years elections while we, he was a little bit cynical he said haha we know who is in power but precisely that allows us to think in the terms of decades. It's not what will happen in two years it's what the environment will be years from now not just to talk about it we have all those predictions you know in catastrophe but no they in a wrong way I don't think it will work that authoritarian way but you know we will need to establish not a Chinese authoritarian one but some form of collective decision-making
think today is more true than ever from an early text by George Orwell '37 I think, where he says the leftists like to talk so much about how we have to change the world but what they are really afraid is that the world would really change. You know, like you especially I don't know how the situation is in Canada but I have a problem with AOC, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, but when she conditionally supported Biden all that stuff blah blah, I got the point but some of her critics I didn't agree with them because they said no Biden capital blah blah he will even worse or the same as Trump. You know what's the problem? Here I agree with my enemy haha Chomsky who said we don't have time to wait for some authentic revolution or whatever. The situation ecologically and so on is so catastrophic you know that without any illusions of course we will be again and again disappointed but we should just grab whatever we can. That's why I don't like of course I don't like opportunists but I also don't like what I call principled opportunists. You know these radical leftists who whatever of course you make compromises you try to do they say no you just work for the capital, this is a trick of those in power not to change things really and so on and so on. No, I think would you agree? The correct thing was Biden proposed some things which in spite of all I'm so critical of Biden in spite of all his problematic point would have been good, all those trillions for environment and so on. We should just not so much support him as hold him how do you put it in English by his word you know, let's see if he will really do it because he's already making compromises. The other thing where now I'm instantly provoking you and our public is I think we should learn to appreciate state. It's so fashionable today to claim you know state is the ultimate enemy by radical left all authentic politics takes place at a distance from state. But you know who is my source here? This will be probably surprised in rehabilitation of the state. You know Alvaro García Linera? I really appreciate him the ex Vice President of Bolivia. He described in a short text wonderfully the situation when when the pandemic exploded. He said ordinary lives were perturbed, people were losing jobs, companies went broke, international cooperation we know what happened everybody for himself even Europe European Union didn't quite work blah blah. So the only thing that we had, there were important local mobilizations and so on, but the only thing we had was state. We expected from the state, you know, to print money, to provide for you. So yes state is alienated blah blah blah, but it's nonetheless an apparatus that if we can use it we should use it. Don't underestimate it. Second thing, especially I'm here referring to you and I hope some of your listeners in Vancouver. I love Vancouver but you know what makes me sad with my bourgeois sensibilities? Incidentally my son who always sarcastically attacks me you know. Do you remember in that upper class downtown and it's very sad this isn't the downtown on that island now a place where you almost almost cannot afford to live no? Is the rich people from Japan, South Korea, even China and so on no? And I remember maybe you know it somewhere there in the very center of downtown there is a small cafeteria called Flying Pig and my son so nicely at the time said look dad there is a cafeteria there whose title is Slavoj on an airplane meaning. But what I want to say is that how did you survive or our listeners if we are from your if they are from your area, you remember last summer you approached almost degrees? Yes here we need not only state but even more international cooperation because listen some of stupid anti-state leftists like to say no state manipulates ecological data, the only guy we person we can trust are local people investigating looking into companies which with which ruin our environment which pollute and so on and so on. Yeah of course but that's not by far not enough a point. Look at Vancouver I don't know but probably maybe you are you in your area since kind of a I don't know liberal city blah blah, you are not even probably so bad ecological sorry I'm still there I'm there yes yes I'm sorry because the image is mine yes. So what I want to say is that no you shouldn't as much as you look into your immediate environment there, you will not find the causes of that temperature, the causes are global. It's a global perturbation of how air circulates towards the north. Even in northern Siberia in the coldest city on the earth they had degrees Celsius which is close to in Fahrenheit. So what I'm saying is that this is the proof that you know this so popular local approach you know like no this anarchist vision of we should begin at the local level and then gradually through forms of cooperation go up. Yeah but we already live in a global universe again where for example what happened in Vancouver, yes you had consequences there but it was an effect of something that went on globally and for which probably I don't know how the air circulates there other parts of the world are much more responsible you know. But to finish you know why I like cities like Vancouver because we have in Europe this joke you know this joke that son asks his father dad why don't they build cities in the countryside where the air is much better you know. Vancouver comes close to me, there are others like Bergen in Norway such a city you know where you are in a city but not so far you can see mountains there okay I talk too much. But you see my point? No local approach, use global approach, use every every mean you can every mean necessary. Here I will give you a totally crazy answer for which I'm provoking but seriously. What neoliberalism? It is clear I was convinced by my friends not totally I have doubts but nonetheless Yanis Varoufakis, Jodi Dean and others that first neoliberalism was up to a point always a myth. It was a notion that the developed countries used to put pressure on poor African countries or third world countries like diminish the state, allow free competition which means allow our companies to exploit nature in your but if you look closely what is happening in the last decades, my god the states are really getting stronger and stronger. Not of course healthcare and so on they try to pull out there. But if you look at really successful in capitalist terms, I'm not trying to sell any leftist ideology here, countries like think about I don't know not so much China as don't forget others, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore. This is not liberal capitalism. This is extremely strong role of the state which in a very planned way selects okay we will support these industries, that industries and so on and so on and they do something which Western liberal democracies because of their electoral system cannot do it. I'm horrified by China I'm no fan of them but I met once a Chinese guy, an official guy who made a point who told me listen with you it's a problem you just worry about next two years four years elections while we, he was a little bit cynical he said haha we know who is in power but precisely that allows us to think in the terms of decades. It's not what will happen in two years it's what the environment will be years from now not just to talk about it we have all those predictions you know in catastrophe but no they in a wrong way I don't think it will work that authoritarian way but you know we will need to establish not a Chinese authoritarian one but some form of collective decision-making
unknown
which will not function in
which will not function in
Slavoj Žižek
this rhythm of every two years you have elections and so on and so on. That is so that is that is so important for me. So my first problem with neoliberalism is this one that we already don't have it look look again what happened with the pandemic. What neoliberalism? I know Trump was cheating, much money went only to to companies but nonetheless state intervened printing trillions of
this rhythm of every two years you have elections and so on and so on. That is so that is that is so important for me. So my first problem with neoliberalism is this one that we already don't have it look look again what happened with the pandemic. What neoliberalism? I know Trump was cheating, much money went only to to companies but nonetheless state intervened printing trillions of
unknown
money and so on it was the same in Europe. So it's not that second thing now I come you I'm sure you and your listeners know it to again I have doubts with this term but it describes something the so-called corporate neofeudalsm or whatever. Now I don't want to jump too quickly there but what I tried to develop in many of my books I often repeat myself I call this ecological writing recycling you know but what I want to say is that to put it in orthodox Marxist terms, Marx speaks about the privatization of commons, commons in the
money and so on it was the same in Europe. So it's not that second thing now I come you I'm sure you and your listeners know it to again I have doubts with this term but it describes something the so-called corporate neofeudalsm or whatever. Now I don't want to jump too quickly there but what I tried to develop in many of my books I often repeat myself I call this ecological writing recycling you know but what I want to say is that to put it in orthodox Marxist terms, Marx speaks about the privatization of commons, commons in the
Slavoj Žižek
sense of not just woods forests acceptable accessible to everybody but in the sense of the air we breathe, the market, mediums of communication and so on. Now these commons themselves are privatized but they remain commons. Like you buy books more or less soft monopoly by Amazon, we are probably now using some Microsoft or whatever device. So I'm saying you see the paradox? We experience ourselves as free and so on but the space in which me we move is already controlled by a big company which is then usually again linked to a state as my good friend Julian Assange put it I love that that NSA that Google is really a private counterpart to NSA to National Security Agency in United States. So what I want to say is that it's that that's why as following some Italian economists although that's not my specific topic I'll try to develop the standard capitalist development was from rent to profit. But now we are in a way returning to rent, look sorry my old example look somebody at somebody like Bill Gates. Where do his billions come from? He probably pays his workers I don't know even relatively well, it's not this, it's that he owns one of our commons and we are paying him rent. Double rent, not just this financial and so on we also allow ourselves to him to collect data about us all this media especially Facebook regulate what information so this is where we are today. Some people even go so far here like Yanis Varoufakis that claim it's no longer capitalism. I wouldn't go so far I just think that and I know that these mega corporations still control a relatively small percentage of our production but I see nonetheless a new axis becoming important. On the one hand this mega corporations which control our commons and we are paying them rent, even in public transport instead of taxi companies you get Uber. You know what is so interesting in Uber is that workers who work in Uber are usually own their own means of production, the car and so on. If you're a programmer you have your own you have your own PC and so on so you are exploited without social security and so on but in spontaneous ideology the system is selling this to you as your extra freedom. They said you see you are not a wage worker, you are precarious which means for them new freedom you can you search for contract here there you are a kind of a individual small entrepreneur. So this is the new constellation and since now I will make another very provocative move since you have now in Canada and it's exploding everywhere this trucker strike and so on and so on I don't know how it is with you but even in my as Donald Trump would have put it shit hole of a country Slovenia although his wife was from here it was so interesting that you know who dares to strike in Slovenia? Highly paid state employees for example in hospitals not the nurses but top paid doctors, they're paid by state most hospitals are still public and they know that they scare the shit out of the people if they go on strike who will operate me and so on and so on. So to be in a position to be able to strike, to go on a strike without really threatening your existence it's a very privileged position here you know that's a sad thing. Those ordinary people who work in small companies even big they don't dare even to think about strike my god. The boss will tell them okay fuck off no problem. So this is why I think that strikes often in Slovenia at least they're as a rule strikes of the privileged state employees in what sense privileged. They are relatively well paid and they have a stable permanent job. They don't have this precarious anxiety of precariousness what will happen and so on and so on. Isn't this isn't this very sad that what is the symbol of workers' resistance, a strike, becomes a privilege. You know what worries me even and I have the same problem with remaining radical leftists communist blah blah but with working class today, who is today the working class? It became clear that you have absolutely to include a series of other people, not only precarious workers who and this is an ingenious trick like since you as a precarious worker as a small entrepreneur propose I mean do contracts with a company, it's no longer this prevents any solidarity more or less among at least in my country among precarious workers because you experience the company with which you make a contract as kind of a transparent mediator just an anonymous agency and you see as competitors other precarious workers. So it prevents solidarity, creates antagonism. That's why precarious workers should be included. Then as many good economists from Italy, United States, Bolivia pointed out, you know Marx knew it but underestimated this key distinction distinction sorry between valorized and non-valorized work. Valorized simply means that you are paid the regular wage in this sense that your work produces value. But wasn't it one of the lessons of the pandemic that that as a good Marxist I forgot his name sorry recently put it, for the capitalist valorization to function it must be supported by the unpaid formally not included into capital's circulation non-valorized work. In small stores your relatives helping you, the wife at home doing the work and so on and so on. So it's crucial today to include in the overall scheme of exploitation these non-valorized workers and next thing some of my ecologically oriented Marxists pointed out, they call this it's a clumsy term, no longer exploitation of work but more exploitation of existence, of your conditions of existence. You in Canada know your Trudeau was a little bit of disappointed here that fracking and so on basically it goes on no? You know and so on. Why is this tragic? Because at least I read some reports on how it's really ruining the countryside. Indigenous people who usually live close to those sites, they are not exploited formally, they are not paid they're just ignored but their conditions of existence are ruined. And this is no longer marginal today. I know because I have friends there in Ecuador. The previous President Rafael Correa was lost his job precisely because he tries to limit this exploitation of existence, big companies mining ruining environment and without formally directly exploiting local people ruining their conditions of existence. And are we aware how many things are happening along these lines today? For example now people no longer talk about it but do you remember a couple of years ago the big topic was Somali pirates? Yeah but you know why they exploded because international I mean international foreign foreign fishing boats, especially Chinese one must say this totally devastated the sea there, leaving no fishes. And the way they survive on that coast was fishing and so on. We have to include all this in today's situation. It's no longer this clear image exploited workers there are different variations of exploitation and so on and so on. So the second thing I want to say is also that now people often ask me you are must be crazy what do you think by communism. No I'm giving them a very simple answer. Yes I know I was a dissident I was seven years unemployed in 1970s but my god listen I give them I repeat it I know it I often say this a very simple answer. Don't read any communist literature. Just look what the media are telling us, even the official media. We need global cooperation already from the pandemic. Only global cooperation where most people will be okay now it's no longer vaccination but whatever global cooperation is needed. Then with global warming and all these natural perturbations, probably tens of millions of people if not hundreds will have to move around. This is unthinkable without new forms of global cooperation and it has to be global and this is for me communism. I communism is for me the shortest definition, a social order which will be able really to do what even the official media are saying that we should do. Global cooperation and so for example the big scandal is and many sorry for this ironic term honest capitalists bourgeois politicians are admitting this. Look wasn't this a scandal you know that in Europe now with Omicron and different rules we are destroying tens of millions of vaccines because their date will just why didn't we say two months ago okay let's quickly send them to Africa I don't know where, even a bigger scandal this how do you call it copyright license, it should have been free that you can produce if you can vaccines without paying for license and I'm not here preaching some kind of a cheap socialism, are we aware how many billions our state gave as a help to companies to develop vaccines? So my god we should get something back so you see I am not this who non-alienation paradise on earth I'm a communist out of despair. I'm asking people just listen to the official media, they're all saying idiots like Prince Charles are saying this, we need global cooperation solidarity. I'm saying okay but do you seriously think that the existing order global socio-political order will be able to do this. It's wonderful what you made Yanis Varoufakis or whatever you I like no what I found I this is my eternal joke we are friends on him, that I claim your first girlfriend must have been called Waru why because I claim you Greek are primitive people and your family name comes from the first girl you fuck like Waru-fakis. We are friends, we are politically not correct but we are fanatically feminists you know but isn't it wonderful to live in this free free range where you don't worry about political correctness but you are extremely sensitive when you really hurt somebody? I'm very sorry go on. No not totally here I am it may surprise you but you know what I am afraid of. Nationalization without proper social control opens up incredible new spaces of corruption you know so I my idea would be a very modest one for some crazy leftist I would already have been a traitor now. Allow selectively competition absolutely but in the terms under conditions determined by state society like for example we need to produce we needed now nobody cares masks, COVID masks. Okay to nationalize it establish a big company blah blah it would be instant corruption. So yes private companies allow them to do it but under strict control against corruption and so on and so on. I I this is also why it's also it's our dream you know when I said global cooperation I didn't mean worldwide state. Can you even imagine in today's condition what corruption security privileges and so on this would this would involve? So for us it's and that's makes me very sad because the bad guys bad in the sense that it is tough now practically no freedom in China. But I agree with what they are trying to do they have capitalist competition the problem is that they are admitting it now that exploitation is so radical there you know when the party said they had to that they have to prohibit but they didn't yet the formula you know? Yeah I thought my god because in my dirty mind is that double oral sex you know so the communist party prohibited a certain triple sex etc. No it means what is common practice in big factories there you work six days a week from nine to nine yeah hours. And the say again we touch today something for which is for me the basic ideological not even ideological the way social order functions this is formally prohibited in China to have such long working hours but it was an unspoken rule everything for efficiency you tolerate you know. So the basic the problem is just how not to do it in a Chinese way. The basic idea of allowing selectively competition but in socially regulated conditions you know where not just against corruption but also for the common efficiency and so on and so on. So I still think that I'm not a utopian here that I'm really a pessimist you know in long term that if we will not manage to do this I I'm afraid to think what will be with our societies in like years and it's not my madness I don't know how it is with you but in Slovenia my part of Europe other countries around you know that almost the majority thinks this the birth rate is falling terribly not because of poverty but because young people simply think we are approaching a crazy world who wants to have children in this conditions you know it's it's it's I really think that we the left should be brutally realist here okay and then I give you your domina off image another point not a desperate point. You know many left-liberals focus on immigrants open border for them the ultimate example of today's oppression is closed borders. My opinion here is a little bit more nuanced of course it's scandal what is happening on borders but the solution is not that all the poor from the third world come to Western Europe
sense of not just woods forests acceptable accessible to everybody but in the sense of the air we breathe, the market, mediums of communication and so on. Now these commons themselves are privatized but they remain commons. Like you buy books more or less soft monopoly by Amazon, we are probably now using some Microsoft or whatever device. So I'm saying you see the paradox? We experience ourselves as free and so on but the space in which me we move is already controlled by a big company which is then usually again linked to a state as my good friend Julian Assange put it I love that that NSA that Google is really a private counterpart to NSA to National Security Agency in United States. So what I want to say is that it's that that's why as following some Italian economists although that's not my specific topic I'll try to develop the standard capitalist development was from rent to profit. But now we are in a way returning to rent, look sorry my old example look somebody at somebody like Bill Gates. Where do his billions come from? He probably pays his workers I don't know even relatively well, it's not this, it's that he owns one of our commons and we are paying him rent. Double rent, not just this financial and so on we also allow ourselves to him to collect data about us all this media especially Facebook regulate what information so this is where we are today. Some people even go so far here like Yanis Varoufakis that claim it's no longer capitalism. I wouldn't go so far I just think that and I know that these mega corporations still control a relatively small percentage of our production but I see nonetheless a new axis becoming important. On the one hand this mega corporations which control our commons and we are paying them rent, even in public transport instead of taxi companies you get Uber. You know what is so interesting in Uber is that workers who work in Uber are usually own their own means of production, the car and so on. If you're a programmer you have your own you have your own PC and so on so you are exploited without social security and so on but in spontaneous ideology the system is selling this to you as your extra freedom. They said you see you are not a wage worker, you are precarious which means for them new freedom you can you search for contract here there you are a kind of a individual small entrepreneur. So this is the new constellation and since now I will make another very provocative move since you have now in Canada and it's exploding everywhere this trucker strike and so on and so on I don't know how it is with you but even in my as Donald Trump would have put it shit hole of a country Slovenia although his wife was from here it was so interesting that you know who dares to strike in Slovenia? Highly paid state employees for example in hospitals not the nurses but top paid doctors, they're paid by state most hospitals are still public and they know that they scare the shit out of the people if they go on strike who will operate me and so on and so on. So to be in a position to be able to strike, to go on a strike without really threatening your existence it's a very privileged position here you know that's a sad thing. Those ordinary people who work in small companies even big they don't dare even to think about strike my god. The boss will tell them okay fuck off no problem. So this is why I think that strikes often in Slovenia at least they're as a rule strikes of the privileged state employees in what sense privileged. They are relatively well paid and they have a stable permanent job. They don't have this precarious anxiety of precariousness what will happen and so on and so on. Isn't this isn't this very sad that what is the symbol of workers' resistance, a strike, becomes a privilege. You know what worries me even and I have the same problem with remaining radical leftists communist blah blah but with working class today, who is today the working class? It became clear that you have absolutely to include a series of other people, not only precarious workers who and this is an ingenious trick like since you as a precarious worker as a small entrepreneur propose I mean do contracts with a company, it's no longer this prevents any solidarity more or less among at least in my country among precarious workers because you experience the company with which you make a contract as kind of a transparent mediator just an anonymous agency and you see as competitors other precarious workers. So it prevents solidarity, creates antagonism. That's why precarious workers should be included. Then as many good economists from Italy, United States, Bolivia pointed out, you know Marx knew it but underestimated this key distinction distinction sorry between valorized and non-valorized work. Valorized simply means that you are paid the regular wage in this sense that your work produces value. But wasn't it one of the lessons of the pandemic that that as a good Marxist I forgot his name sorry recently put it, for the capitalist valorization to function it must be supported by the unpaid formally not included into capital's circulation non-valorized work. In small stores your relatives helping you, the wife at home doing the work and so on and so on. So it's crucial today to include in the overall scheme of exploitation these non-valorized workers and next thing some of my ecologically oriented Marxists pointed out, they call this it's a clumsy term, no longer exploitation of work but more exploitation of existence, of your conditions of existence. You in Canada know your Trudeau was a little bit of disappointed here that fracking and so on basically it goes on no? You know and so on. Why is this tragic? Because at least I read some reports on how it's really ruining the countryside. Indigenous people who usually live close to those sites, they are not exploited formally, they are not paid they're just ignored but their conditions of existence are ruined. And this is no longer marginal today. I know because I have friends there in Ecuador. The previous President Rafael Correa was lost his job precisely because he tries to limit this exploitation of existence, big companies mining ruining environment and without formally directly exploiting local people ruining their conditions of existence. And are we aware how many things are happening along these lines today? For example now people no longer talk about it but do you remember a couple of years ago the big topic was Somali pirates? Yeah but you know why they exploded because international I mean international foreign foreign fishing boats, especially Chinese one must say this totally devastated the sea there, leaving no fishes. And the way they survive on that coast was fishing and so on. We have to include all this in today's situation. It's no longer this clear image exploited workers there are different variations of exploitation and so on and so on. So the second thing I want to say is also that now people often ask me you are must be crazy what do you think by communism. No I'm giving them a very simple answer. Yes I know I was a dissident I was seven years unemployed in 1970s but my god listen I give them I repeat it I know it I often say this a very simple answer. Don't read any communist literature. Just look what the media are telling us, even the official media. We need global cooperation already from the pandemic. Only global cooperation where most people will be okay now it's no longer vaccination but whatever global cooperation is needed. Then with global warming and all these natural perturbations, probably tens of millions of people if not hundreds will have to move around. This is unthinkable without new forms of global cooperation and it has to be global and this is for me communism. I communism is for me the shortest definition, a social order which will be able really to do what even the official media are saying that we should do. Global cooperation and so for example the big scandal is and many sorry for this ironic term honest capitalists bourgeois politicians are admitting this. Look wasn't this a scandal you know that in Europe now with Omicron and different rules we are destroying tens of millions of vaccines because their date will just why didn't we say two months ago okay let's quickly send them to Africa I don't know where, even a bigger scandal this how do you call it copyright license, it should have been free that you can produce if you can vaccines without paying for license and I'm not here preaching some kind of a cheap socialism, are we aware how many billions our state gave as a help to companies to develop vaccines? So my god we should get something back so you see I am not this who non-alienation paradise on earth I'm a communist out of despair. I'm asking people just listen to the official media, they're all saying idiots like Prince Charles are saying this, we need global cooperation solidarity. I'm saying okay but do you seriously think that the existing order global socio-political order will be able to do this. It's wonderful what you made Yanis Varoufakis or whatever you I like no what I found I this is my eternal joke we are friends on him, that I claim your first girlfriend must have been called Waru why because I claim you Greek are primitive people and your family name comes from the first girl you fuck like Waru-fakis. We are friends, we are politically not correct but we are fanatically feminists you know but isn't it wonderful to live in this free free range where you don't worry about political correctness but you are extremely sensitive when you really hurt somebody? I'm very sorry go on. No not totally here I am it may surprise you but you know what I am afraid of. Nationalization without proper social control opens up incredible new spaces of corruption you know so I my idea would be a very modest one for some crazy leftist I would already have been a traitor now. Allow selectively competition absolutely but in the terms under conditions determined by state society like for example we need to produce we needed now nobody cares masks, COVID masks. Okay to nationalize it establish a big company blah blah it would be instant corruption. So yes private companies allow them to do it but under strict control against corruption and so on and so on. I I this is also why it's also it's our dream you know when I said global cooperation I didn't mean worldwide state. Can you even imagine in today's condition what corruption security privileges and so on this would this would involve? So for us it's and that's makes me very sad because the bad guys bad in the sense that it is tough now practically no freedom in China. But I agree with what they are trying to do they have capitalist competition the problem is that they are admitting it now that exploitation is so radical there you know when the party said they had to that they have to prohibit but they didn't yet the formula you know? Yeah I thought my god because in my dirty mind is that double oral sex you know so the communist party prohibited a certain triple sex etc. No it means what is common practice in big factories there you work six days a week from nine to nine yeah hours. And the say again we touch today something for which is for me the basic ideological not even ideological the way social order functions this is formally prohibited in China to have such long working hours but it was an unspoken rule everything for efficiency you tolerate you know. So the basic the problem is just how not to do it in a Chinese way. The basic idea of allowing selectively competition but in socially regulated conditions you know where not just against corruption but also for the common efficiency and so on and so on. So I still think that I'm not a utopian here that I'm really a pessimist you know in long term that if we will not manage to do this I I'm afraid to think what will be with our societies in like years and it's not my madness I don't know how it is with you but in Slovenia my part of Europe other countries around you know that almost the majority thinks this the birth rate is falling terribly not because of poverty but because young people simply think we are approaching a crazy world who wants to have children in this conditions you know it's it's it's I really think that we the left should be brutally realist here okay and then I give you your domina off image another point not a desperate point. You know many left-liberals focus on immigrants open border for them the ultimate example of today's oppression is closed borders. My opinion here is a little bit more nuanced of course it's scandal what is happening on borders but the solution is not that all the poor from the third world come to Western Europe
unknown
here. First problem what about the causes of immigration? Let's things things will have to be changed at that level. Why is there
here. First problem what about the causes of immigration? Let's things things will have to be changed at that level. Why is there
Slavoj Žižek
immigration in Europe? Pretty simply because of all these wars there which were triggered by the West and other big powers intervening. Without American occupation of Iraq and I know how horrible Saddam was there wouldn't have been ISIS and civil war in Syria and without there wouldn't have been this wave of immigrants. Second thing we are not really getting I read a wonderful leftist analysis of this we are
immigration in Europe? Pretty simply because of all these wars there which were triggered by the West and other big powers intervening. Without American occupation of Iraq and I know how horrible Saddam was there wouldn't have been ISIS and civil war in Syria and without there wouldn't have been this wave of immigrants. Second thing we are not really getting I read a wonderful leftist analysis of this we are
unknown
not really getting from the third world countries the really poor because it's a very complex network of smugglers around billion dollars is turned around there like if you want to immigrate from Syria or Iraq to Western Europe you need to pay for the transport for all that that they then smuggle you from Turkey to Europe and the cost is usually between five and ten
not really getting from the third world countries the really poor because it's a very complex network of smugglers around billion dollars is turned around there like if you want to immigrate from Syria or Iraq to Western Europe you need to pay for the transport for all that that they then smuggle you from Turkey to Europe and the cost is usually between five and ten
Slavoj Žižek
thousand euros. So it's the relatively privileged strata with some exception but the basic formula is gangsters and the privileged who can afford to emigrate while the truly poor remain there. There will last thing left-liberals in power love immigrants not too many because usually unfortunately ordinary people often feel threatened by them. And you know this is ideal for those in power you don't have any contact with immigrants but you can comfortably blame ordinary people you see there the true racist we are enlightened open and so on. Nothing those in power like nothing more than one lower one part of the lower classes and another part in conflict and they can play above all this this wise wise conciliatory multicultural whatever and so on and so on. You know we will have to do more more more radical steps here and if we will not no I'm not an optimist even here probably we will not but then let's at least be aware of what will happen. How is it do you have no problem do I exaggerate or not? I follow what's happening I like the city in Vancouver you know how isn't it now again that the poorer strata okay not starving but poorer are moving out and the island with the beautiful downtown is more and more I mean local people less and less can afford to to live there you know. Yeah but well it's a little bit complicated because it's not just the the richest people aren't moving out it's people I'd say in kind of like maybe like millennials who are getting pushed out of the city because they can't start families they can't afford homes and stuff like that but the extreme poor are still concentrated in the downtown east side like the people who have extreme poverty. Downtown East Side yeah the Downtown East Side. But that's but that's a very small concentration it's just it's just like a series of like four blocks with extreme poverty and extreme addiction and abuse. I agree with you because if you move from the downtown a little bit towards east a little bit then there is a wonderful area with some old street card car many places but they warned us there they said here it's nice but two blocks further don't go there. Yeah you're right I remember this you know why I like cities like Vancouver and in United States screw Seattle it's not as great as they think even screw San Francisco it's no longer what they think although there are many right-wingers there but as a city I like Portland were you there? It has mega I forgot the name maybe the best bookstore in United States a couple of houses mega yeah Powell's Books. Yeah and it's big city of less than a million where you can basically cover the downtown on foot you know you just circulate there I I love these cities. The only thing I like about New York Manhattan is that it's also like that in the sense that it's just a connection of villages when I stayed there before COVID with my friends around Washington Square everything was there cinemas bookstores cafeterias and for one month I didn't move out there everything was there for me really. Yeah no not just USA here let's also include maybe it's time sorry to interrupt but I know what US United States are doing but you know we are entering truly a little bit more multicentric era where this is a very dark chapter but my African friends are telling me what China now is doing in many African countries is a very rough economic neocolonialism you know so it's not just let's be careful it's still the biggest maybe threat United States but also China and other countries are are doing it sorry go on. Yeah no there is no easy way out because and now I tried with my Freudian psychoanalytic friends to develop this you know the big very sad lesson which was true all the time but now we are feeling its material force is I absolutely want to resist this cheap mantra people especially ordinary people are victims of their passions they don't think rationally whatever but it is in some sense obviously true that people systematically vote against their own if you put them in primitive way against their own interests. Look what happened under Trump with middle classes they were the big supporters of Trump and economically they were the big losers and so on. So although I don't underestimate talking about real economic interests this was the big force of of Bernie Sanders you know like he he simply didn't go into that bullshit of ideological topics and so on he simply addressed economic interests but at the same time this is so tragic precisely when poverty grows it's very easy to mobilize people not against poverty directly but this basic ideological mechanism where you project into a foreigner or whoever big capital the source of poverty and you mobilize them. I mention this in one of my books this is the most depressive things that happened not in Slovenia but in a neighboring country Croatia some ten years ago. On the one hand left trade unions try to organize a big meeting because there was new taxation system wages were falling horrible situation for ordinary people. At the same time nationalist right-wingers organized
thousand euros. So it's the relatively privileged strata with some exception but the basic formula is gangsters and the privileged who can afford to emigrate while the truly poor remain there. There will last thing left-liberals in power love immigrants not too many because usually unfortunately ordinary people often feel threatened by them. And you know this is ideal for those in power you don't have any contact with immigrants but you can comfortably blame ordinary people you see there the true racist we are enlightened open and so on. Nothing those in power like nothing more than one lower one part of the lower classes and another part in conflict and they can play above all this this wise wise conciliatory multicultural whatever and so on and so on. You know we will have to do more more more radical steps here and if we will not no I'm not an optimist even here probably we will not but then let's at least be aware of what will happen. How is it do you have no problem do I exaggerate or not? I follow what's happening I like the city in Vancouver you know how isn't it now again that the poorer strata okay not starving but poorer are moving out and the island with the beautiful downtown is more and more I mean local people less and less can afford to to live there you know. Yeah but well it's a little bit complicated because it's not just the the richest people aren't moving out it's people I'd say in kind of like maybe like millennials who are getting pushed out of the city because they can't start families they can't afford homes and stuff like that but the extreme poor are still concentrated in the downtown east side like the people who have extreme poverty. Downtown East Side yeah the Downtown East Side. But that's but that's a very small concentration it's just it's just like a series of like four blocks with extreme poverty and extreme addiction and abuse. I agree with you because if you move from the downtown a little bit towards east a little bit then there is a wonderful area with some old street card car many places but they warned us there they said here it's nice but two blocks further don't go there. Yeah you're right I remember this you know why I like cities like Vancouver and in United States screw Seattle it's not as great as they think even screw San Francisco it's no longer what they think although there are many right-wingers there but as a city I like Portland were you there? It has mega I forgot the name maybe the best bookstore in United States a couple of houses mega yeah Powell's Books. Yeah and it's big city of less than a million where you can basically cover the downtown on foot you know you just circulate there I I love these cities. The only thing I like about New York Manhattan is that it's also like that in the sense that it's just a connection of villages when I stayed there before COVID with my friends around Washington Square everything was there cinemas bookstores cafeterias and for one month I didn't move out there everything was there for me really. Yeah no not just USA here let's also include maybe it's time sorry to interrupt but I know what US United States are doing but you know we are entering truly a little bit more multicentric era where this is a very dark chapter but my African friends are telling me what China now is doing in many African countries is a very rough economic neocolonialism you know so it's not just let's be careful it's still the biggest maybe threat United States but also China and other countries are are doing it sorry go on. Yeah no there is no easy way out because and now I tried with my Freudian psychoanalytic friends to develop this you know the big very sad lesson which was true all the time but now we are feeling its material force is I absolutely want to resist this cheap mantra people especially ordinary people are victims of their passions they don't think rationally whatever but it is in some sense obviously true that people systematically vote against their own if you put them in primitive way against their own interests. Look what happened under Trump with middle classes they were the big supporters of Trump and economically they were the big losers and so on. So although I don't underestimate talking about real economic interests this was the big force of of Bernie Sanders you know like he he simply didn't go into that bullshit of ideological topics and so on he simply addressed economic interests but at the same time this is so tragic precisely when poverty grows it's very easy to mobilize people not against poverty directly but this basic ideological mechanism where you project into a foreigner or whoever big capital the source of poverty and you mobilize them. I mention this in one of my books this is the most depressive things that happened not in Slovenia but in a neighboring country Croatia some ten years ago. On the one hand left trade unions try to organize a big meeting because there was new taxation system wages were falling horrible situation for ordinary people. At the same time nationalist right-wingers organized
unknown
a big protest against Serb minority that they still want to colonize Eastern Croatia. Now although one would have thought my god
a big protest against Serb minority that they still want to colonize Eastern Croatia. Now although one would have thought my god
unknown
people are half starved blah blah you know how many people came to the leftist protest You know how many people came to the rightist nationalist protest half a million. I mean I mean here I think
people are half starved blah blah you know how many people came to the leftist protest You know how many people came to the rightist nationalist protest half a million. I mean I mean here I think
Slavoj Žižek
that the only thing we can do because you know first this let's not have any illusions I've experienced this myself our media are heavily censored and manipulated. Okay I will be a little bit arrogant look what happened to me you are too young to remember but years ago every month or so New York Times published a poet by me then it was even one to points Newsweek then
that the only thing we can do because you know first this let's not have any illusions I've experienced this myself our media are heavily censored and manipulated. Okay I will be a little bit arrogant look what happened to me you are too young to remember but years ago every month or so New York Times published a poet by me then it was even one to points Newsweek then
unknown
it was
it was
Slavoj Žižek
other smaller media but I was there. Now I'm completely prohibited there I'm completely prohibited even in those like more to the left British dailies like Guardian, Independent and so on and so on we we we fit like of course formally you are free to write whatever you want but our media are so manipulated censored and so on and we should
other smaller media but I was there. Now I'm completely prohibited there I'm completely prohibited even in those like more to the left British dailies like Guardian, Independent and so on and so on we we we fit like of course formally you are free to write whatever you want but our media are so manipulated censored and so on and we should
unknown
also include this into our fight like if you ask me for the most horrible text that I read in the last months it's not some right-wing nuts it's Zuckerberg Meta
also include this into our fight like if you ask me for the most horrible text that I read in the last months it's not some right-wing nuts it's Zuckerberg Meta
Slavoj Žižek
manifesto. This is
manifesto. This is
unknown
for me the true manifesto of
for me the true manifesto of
Slavoj Žižek
neofeudalsm. He proposes a new common space without social contradiction we all smoothly function there yeah fuck it but it's owned by him controlled and you know all this subtle weights how ways how you are not even aware of how you are manipulated and so on. So it's crucial for us and through all these podcasts we are doing it to
neofeudalsm. He proposes a new common space without social contradiction we all smoothly function there yeah fuck it but it's owned by him controlled and you know all this subtle weights how ways how you are not even aware of how you are manipulated and so on. So it's crucial for us and through all these podcasts we are doing it to
unknown
reach the public and I'm miracles I okay now I will give you a totally desperate answer. Our only hope are miracles but they happen things just explode. I know it was marginal I know it didn't have effects although it was one moment you remember
reach the public and I'm miracles I okay now I will give you a totally desperate answer. Our only hope are miracles but they happen things just explode. I know it was marginal I know it didn't have effects although it was one moment you remember
Slavoj Žižek
when was it six seven years ago Occupy Wall Street nobody expected it thousands of people there people say it dissipated no as Chomsky my great enemy said at some point without Occupy Wall Street there probably wouldn't have been Bernie Sanders and so on you know it's slow slow slow process so second thing I'm not afraid that nothing will happen. I think we should emphasize this that the choice is not between our in spite of all problems growing violence and so on still relatively I underline this comfortable life in our Western affluent societies like do you want to ruin this for some crazy communist dreams no the welfare capitalism welfare state which incidentally never really existed in this idealized forum but whatever it was it is disintegrating it is disappearing so the choice is clear and my lesson would have been a totally crazy one again what the Chinese are trying to do it to try to get to our side even some small it's an ironic term I know small shop owners productive capital and so on and to tell them look you are suffering you are even more screwed than us you know our message to liberals should be yes we appreciate great liberal values and so on my god it's nice to live in a at least formally free country but a move to the left is the only way to save what is worth saving in liberalism otherwise Zuckerbergs and others will control our space. Sorry I'm getting a little bit confused sometimes I have to join you again at some point because I like I like I would so much I would so much like to come again to you know why I already liked Vancouver? Once I flew from Toronto to Vancouver and I like cities where it's not large countryside no there are mountains and all of a sudden there is Vancouver it's really like a city built in a pure non- I mean empty countryside on the other hand you know what I know about Canada and I don't love the country any less. Okay it's one of the symptoms but still what not you you but Canada was doing with indigenous children all those horror stories I didn't learn it now you know all those graves they found in Catholic and so on but but I know already for years this and although I have big problems with Trudeau at the beginning I think at least the Parliament nominated some committees which brought out and you know what I found so horrible Catholic church is in our small city country Slovenia it's but everywhere else also is the main voice of homophobia no? And I think that some people are doing but not enough our counter-attack should not be no we are for gays of course we are but should be how dare they talk about this with all the pedophilia and so on they are it they are isn't this such a brutal irony those who are the main pedophiliacs I mean globally too publicly appear you know that in Croatia a friend of mine a gay person made a wonderful argument when there was a how do you call it pride parade in Zagreb capital of Croatia and the church protested. And this guy said it became so popular in Croatia he said in an interview that aha now I see what the church is opposed to, that we are adults screwing each other they would allow only adults screwing small boys that's what disturbs them you know because I'm not even a priori against church in Latin America revolution there church can play a positive role but what in many European countries the Catholic church is doing now it's simply unimaginable.
when was it six seven years ago Occupy Wall Street nobody expected it thousands of people there people say it dissipated no as Chomsky my great enemy said at some point without Occupy Wall Street there probably wouldn't have been Bernie Sanders and so on you know it's slow slow slow process so second thing I'm not afraid that nothing will happen. I think we should emphasize this that the choice is not between our in spite of all problems growing violence and so on still relatively I underline this comfortable life in our Western affluent societies like do you want to ruin this for some crazy communist dreams no the welfare capitalism welfare state which incidentally never really existed in this idealized forum but whatever it was it is disintegrating it is disappearing so the choice is clear and my lesson would have been a totally crazy one again what the Chinese are trying to do it to try to get to our side even some small it's an ironic term I know small shop owners productive capital and so on and to tell them look you are suffering you are even more screwed than us you know our message to liberals should be yes we appreciate great liberal values and so on my god it's nice to live in a at least formally free country but a move to the left is the only way to save what is worth saving in liberalism otherwise Zuckerbergs and others will control our space. Sorry I'm getting a little bit confused sometimes I have to join you again at some point because I like I like I would so much I would so much like to come again to you know why I already liked Vancouver? Once I flew from Toronto to Vancouver and I like cities where it's not large countryside no there are mountains and all of a sudden there is Vancouver it's really like a city built in a pure non- I mean empty countryside on the other hand you know what I know about Canada and I don't love the country any less. Okay it's one of the symptoms but still what not you you but Canada was doing with indigenous children all those horror stories I didn't learn it now you know all those graves they found in Catholic and so on but but I know already for years this and although I have big problems with Trudeau at the beginning I think at least the Parliament nominated some committees which brought out and you know what I found so horrible Catholic church is in our small city country Slovenia it's but everywhere else also is the main voice of homophobia no? And I think that some people are doing but not enough our counter-attack should not be no we are for gays of course we are but should be how dare they talk about this with all the pedophilia and so on they are it they are isn't this such a brutal irony those who are the main pedophiliacs I mean globally too publicly appear you know that in Croatia a friend of mine a gay person made a wonderful argument when there was a how do you call it pride parade in Zagreb capital of Croatia and the church protested. And this guy said it became so popular in Croatia he said in an interview that aha now I see what the church is opposed to, that we are adults screwing each other they would allow only adults screwing small boys that's what disturbs them you know because I'm not even a priori against church in Latin America revolution there church can play a positive role but what in many European countries the Catholic church is doing now it's simply unimaginable.