“Israel Needed War” Slavoj Žižek Meets Yanis Varoufakis (Part 3)
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2024-12-15 · 0:24:47 · 3,503 words
geopolitics-warcapitalismideologypsychoanalysishegel-dialecticsfascism-populismrace-antisemitismsexuality-genderecology-climatetechnology-ai-cyberspacerevolution-violencedemocracyhistory
A dialogue (with Yanis Varoufakis and audience Q&A) pivoting around a Hegelian-Marxist reading of the Gaza/Israel-Iran war, the concept of the 'failed state' extended to Israel and the West, and the rise of 'techno-feudalism' accompanied by brutal local feudalisms in the Global South. Žižek folds in Lacan's 'theft of enjoyment' to explain Trumpist racism/anti-feminism, praises Alenka Zupančič's account of disavowal, and closes with an anecdote about how 'talking a lot' (including about climate) functions as a defense against thinking. Yugoslavia, Milošević, and Slovene decentralization are revisited as a personal-political aside.
every located moment in this recording, click one to read it
The ideas in it 18
in the order they first come up; click a row for what he does with the idea here
as “inner contradiction”
The Hegelian-Marxist motor of a situation: a formation is driven by the clash within it (Iranian regime vs Woman-Life-Freedom; Israeli 'Judaist state' vs fascistic settlers).
His name for the internal Israeli clash between the original Ashkenazi pseudo-social-democratic 'nation-state' conception and the fascistic settlers of Judea.
Redefined against the bourgeois 'third world' usage: a state that can no longer reproduce itself without openly relying on illegal gangster bandit forces, a category Žižek then applies to Israel (Ben-Gvir), Russia (Wagner) and the US (Proud Boys).
His framing of the resource curse: countries like Congo would be poorer but 'much happier' if their diamonds and mines simply disappeared.
as “true feudalism has two sides”
The dialectical complement to techno-feudalism: Western cloud rent is sustained by an even more brutal, literally medieval local warlord feudalism in parts of the Global South (Sudan, Congo).
as “Hegelian dialectics”
Used to read the Middle East as a set of three interlocking 'inner contradictions' (Iran, Israel, Arab world) that the October 7 breach allowed to 'play itself out'.
Yanis Varoufakis's 'mutant form of capital', hardwired into brains, with capacities for exploitation, false consciousness and alienation exceeding industrial capital.
as “we are all small capitalists”
The ideological slogan by which precarious work erases class antagonism: since everyone owns a computer (their 'means of production'), there are 'no workers', only service providers, so the billionaire and the gig worker are 'all the same'.
Marx's trajectory from rent to profit is now reversed into a 'cloud rent' based on capital, the key to understanding post-feudal capitalism.
Cloud capital is hardwired into the mind, so emancipation must break not only Marx's chains but the 'mind chains' that bind us to cloud rent.
Varoufakis's diagnosis that capital has reverted from profit to cloud rent; Žižek accepts it but stresses its dialectical double, hyper-developed cloud rent in the West rests on raw warlord feudalism in the Global South.
Extended to 'digital alienation': cloud capital takes your data and sells your own desire back to you, cultivating what you don't yet know you want.
as “false consciousness”
Marxist idea that techno-feudalism radicalizes 'to the power of N', precarious workers are made to believe they are free small capitalists serving themselves.
Lacanian category (title of his book) mobilized to explain how Trump channels the enjoyment capitalism promises but cannot deliver, intersecting the superego.
Lacanian category he reintroduces to explain today's racism/anti-feminism: it is not just exploitation but the libidinal fantasy that the Other intruder stole 'our way of life' and its secret pleasures.
Beyond fetishist disavowal: today knowledge itself becomes the fetish, 'we know it all so don't annoy me, let's do nothing'; full knowledge paralyzes action rather than enabling it.
His formula for the ideological function of climate (and psychoanalytic) chatter: incessant talk functions as a defense against actually thinking the issue.
as “disavowal”
Zupančič's term for the new mode where knowledge itself becomes a fetish: 'we know it all, so don't annoy me, let's do nothing'.
Stories he reaches for 3
In his own analysis Žižek talked incessantly because he was mortally afraid that if he paused the analyst would ask a genuinely hard question, the same structure, he says, underlies our chatter about global warming.
“I was mortally afraid that if I stop talking for a second the analyst may ask me a really hard question”
Reading Atwood's Handmaid's Tale before the TV series, Žižek caught himself, beneath the conscious horror, secretly enjoying the invention of new ways women are humiliated and tortured, evidence that ideology works through disavowed enjoyment, not belief.
“I was secretly enjoying oh my God now they invent this the bad guys in power that's how they screw women”
A Marxist friend from Congo told him that if all the diamonds and mines disappeared, Congo would be poorer but a much happier country, the natural wealth itself is the curse.
“if all the natural wealth mines and so on diamonds were to disappear from Congo it would have been poor but much happier country”
Works invoked 6
The Handmaid's Tale book
Used as a self-exposure: Žižek caught himself enjoying the invented humiliations, illustrating theft/surplus enjoyment beneath conscious disavowal.
Das Kapital book
Marx's work, which Žižek imagines Marx would 'write again' to take account of cloud capital and 'mind chains'.
Surplus Enjoyment book
Žižek's own book, invoked as the place where the Lacanian categories for reading Trump, racism and anti-feminism are developed 'in a confused way'.
Technofeudalism book
Varoufakis's book; its 'cloud capital' thesis is accepted and extended by Žižek with the dialectical complement of warlord feudalism in the Global South.
Disavowal book
Zupančič's book; supplies the move beyond 'je sais bien mais quand même' to 'knowledge itself becomes a fetish'.
Abraham Accords other
Trump's first-term deal stitching six Arab states to Netanyahu's Israel at the cost of freezing the Palestinians out to 'wither and perish in silence'.
People invoked 11
Slobodan Milošević negative
The 'original sin' who 'killed communism in Yugoslavia and self-management' and destroyed its fragile coalition of unwritten laws, 'a bastard from hell'.
Alenka Zupančič positive
Žižek's 'good friend' whom he 'hates' because she is 'now brighter than me'; her book Disavowal supplies the thesis that knowledge itself becomes a fetish.
Itamar Ben-Gvir negative
Convicted criminal now responsible for West Bank security, the emblem of Israel as a failed state relying on gangsterism.
Jacques Lacan positive
Source of the categories of surplus enjoyment and the theft of enjoyment, which Žižek deploys to read Trumpism, racism and anti-feminism.
Margaret Atwood positive
Author of The Handmaid's Tale, used by Žižek as a self-incriminating test case for disavowed enjoyment of oppression.
Slovene party general secretary who, with others, 'desperately tried to save Yugoslavia in some slightly different forum and failed', cited as evidence against the left-English story blaming Slovenians.
Donald Trump negative
Grudgingly credited with the (Palestinian-freezing) Abraham Accords; otherwise the figure who mobilizes surplus/thief enjoyment, knocks down knowledge as a barrier, and whose Proud-Boy base is antisemitic-and-anti-Arab at once.
Yanis Varoufakis positive
Co-speaker and author of Technofeudalism; Žižek largely agrees but insists on the dialectical double of techno-feudalism, the literal warlord feudalism of the Global South, and jokes they will settle their disagreements 'in the Gulag'.
Benjamin Netanyahu negative
Held to have needed the war to survive the anti-Supreme-Court demonstrations, and to have backed Hamas to kill the two-state solution.
Karl Marx positive
False consciousness, alienation and the rent→profit→rent trajectory are used to frame techno-feudalism; Žižek imagines Marx 'writing Das Kapital again' at the news of cloud capital.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel positive
The Hegelian reading of inner contradictions is the spine of the Middle East analysis; Žižek half-ironically disavows his own constant invocation of Hegel ('a common sense man tired of this guy all the time mentions Hegel').
What it argues
Hegelian inner contradictions of Iran, Israel and the Arab worldIsrael as a 'failed state' sustained by settler gangsterismTechno-feudalism in the West mirrored by warlord feudalism in the Global SouthPrecarious work sold as 'we are all small capitalists'Lacanian theft of enjoyment as the libidinal engine of Trumpism and racismKnowledge itself becoming a fetish (disavowal beyond 'je sais bien mais quand même')The breakup of Yugoslavia and the role of Milošević
Dialectical moves 7
“We must simultaneously support the Woman-Life-Freedom movement and not side with the imperialist attempt to subjugate Iran via regime change.”
The Hegelian both/and: solidarity with the Iranian uprising without capitulating to US imperialism.
“Israel is not a nation-state but a clash between the 'Judaist state' (the pseudo-social-democratic Ashkenazi conception) and the 'Judea state' (the fascistic settlers).”
The inner contradiction is the motor: Israel's truth is the civil war within it, not its external enemy.
“The true 'failed state' is not the Haitian gang-state of bourgeois demonology but the one that can no longer reproduce itself without openly relying on gangster forces — Israel, Russia, the US.”
Inversion of the reactionary 'third world failed state' charge back onto the West.
“We must not only break our chains but also break our mind chains.”
Cloud capital hardwires domination into the mind, so emancipation must be cognitive, not only socio-economic.
“The horror of the new feudal slavery is that it is sold to you, and even experienced, as the ultimate freedom — you believe you are being served by the machines when you are serving the machine.”
Servitude experienced as freedom: the ideological reversal that defines techno-feudalism.
“Today knowledge itself becomes the fetish — far from liberating us, full knowledge becomes the alibi for doing nothing.”
Reversal of the Enlightenment faith that knowledge dissolves ideology: knowledge is now the form ideology takes.
“Even techno-feudalism has two sides: hyper-developed cloud rent in the West is accompanied by an even more brutal, medieval local feudalism in the Global South.”
The advanced and the archaic are not stages but coexisting faces of one system.
Claims 18
asserts
Both the Iranian regime and Netanyahu's Israel needed the war tension with each other to control their respective internal crises (Iranian protests; anti-Netanyahu mega-demonstrations over the Supreme Court).the Israel-Iran war and domestic stabilization
asserts
Israel financially supported Hamas for years, because Netanyahu judged Hamas the only way to convince the Americans there would never be a two-state solution.Israel-Hamas complicity and the two-state solution
asserts
Hamas had a duty to attack the fence of the Gaza concentration camp, but no right to attack civilians (a war crime).the legitimacy and limits of the October 7 attack
asserts
As Hegelians and Marxists we must simultaneously support Iran's Woman-Life-Freedom movement and refuse the US imperialist project of regime change.dual position on Iran
asserts
Israel is a failed state, because it openly relies on gangster settler violence — personified by Ben-Gvir, a convicted criminal now responsible for West Bank security.Israel as failed state
asserts
The Abraham Accords essentially froze the Palestinians out, with most of the Arab world agreeing to let them 'wither, die slowly and perish in silence'.the Abraham Accords and the Palestinian question
asserts
The current trajectory cannot end well for Israel: progressive Israelis are emigrating, leaving the country to the fascistic settlers.Israel's long-term prognosis
asserts
We live in an era of failed states, and they are not confined to the 'third world' — they now appear in the developed West (Israel, Russia, the US).failed states as a global phenomenon
asserts
Western wealth is sustained by extremely brutal conditions and local dictatorships that mirror Northern oligarchies.the global dependency of Western wealth
asserts
Techno-feudalism in the West is dialectically coupled with a literal, medieval-style warlord feudalism in parts of the Global South (Sudan), where a warlord controls a domain and sells to Western corporations.the two faces of contemporary feudalism
asserts
Milošević was the 'original sin' who killed communism, self-management and Yugoslavia as a fragile coalition of unwritten laws.the destruction of Yugoslavia
asserts
Precarious work is the key ideological invention of post-capitalism: by rebranding workers as 'small capitalists' who own their computer, it blurs social antagonism and erases class conflict.the ideology of precarious work
asserts
Unwaged labor on platforms (Instagram uploads) performs free work for cloud capitalists, enhancing their capacity to modify behavior and extract rent.unwaged digital labor
asserts
To understand today's racism, anti-feminism and Trumpism we need Lacan's category of the theft of enjoyment, not only exploitation.the libidinal structure of contemporary reaction
asserts
People enjoy Trump's dirty jokes and transgressions even when they consciously disavow them — knowledge is a barrier to enjoyment that Trump knocks down.the libidinal appeal of Trump
reframes
Today ideology has moved a step beyond fetishist disavowal: knowledge itself becomes the fetish, producing paralysis ('we know it all, so do nothing').the new structure of disavowal
reframes
The torrent of discourse about global warming functions ideologically as a way of talking so that we don't have to actually think about it.climate discourse as ideological defense
asserts
Israel's demand to be 'a Jewish state' is as anachronistic as demanding England or Greece be declared 'a Christian state'.ethno-national definition of the state
Quotes 18
“I'm not a conspiracy theorist but what goes on as it were behind the scenes”Slavoj Žižek · suspicion of hidden state motives
“you need Gulag”Slavoj Žižek · joke about moderator discipline
“a state which no longer can reproduce itself without openly relying on illegal gangster bandit forces”Slavoj Žižek · failed state redefined
“Ben-Gvir who is now that's unimaginable irony even Hegel would get dizzy in this”Slavoj Žižek · irony of contradictions
“the Judaist state versus the Judea state”Slavoj Žižek · Israel's internal clash
“most of the Arab world agreed that the Palestinians can be allowed to wither to die slowly and perish in silence”Slavoj Žižek · the Palestinian abandonment
“we should never forget how our wealth in the west is sustained by extremely brutal conditions”Slavoj Žižek · Western wealth and global brutality
“not only to break our chains but also to break our mind chains”Slavoj Žižek · cloud capital mental domination
“the horror is that this new feudal slavery or servitude is sold to you and people even experience it as the ultimate freedom”Slavoj Žižek · servitude experienced as freedom
“you are made to believe that you are volunteering everything that you are being served by the machines when you are serving the machine”Slavoj Žižek · reversal of service
“Marx would have been ecstatic with the idea... he would never sleep at night he would be writing Das Kapital again”Slavoj Žižek · Marx on cloud capital
“I hate her because she is I think now brighter than me”Slavoj Žižek · affectionate praise of Zupančič
“knowledge itself becomes a fetish like we know it all so don't annoy me let's let's do nothing”Slavoj Žižek · disavowal via knowledge
“I was mortally afraid that if I stop talking for a second the analyst may ask me a really hard question”Slavoj Žižek · talk as defense
“let's talk a lot about it so that we don't have to to think about it”Slavoj Žižek · climate chatter as avoidance
“Milošević was a bastard from hell”Slavoj Žižek · Yugoslavia's destroyer
“I'm more and more in my old age a common sense man”Slavoj Žižek · self-characterization vs Hegel
“it's not just I'm exploited by them but it's... the other the intruder wants to destroy our way of life”Slavoj Žižek · racism as theft of enjoyment
Transcript 51 turns
Slavoj Žižek
In Iran that it was clear that Iranian nomenclature needed also a new tension with not a war like now but with Israel to control the situation but wait a minute the same goes for Israel remember what went on in Israel just a couple of month before October attack hundreds of thousands of people mega demonstration against Netanyahu's attempt to take over Supreme Court and so on and so on they they they needed this war that's why here I have a tough question for you maybe you will have you always know how to squeeze out my God you need Gulag you know what I would like just to know more I'm not a conspiracy theorist but what goes on as it were behind the scenes for example this is confirmed it's not paranoia friends from Israel authentic anti-Zionist played to me the audio clips do you know that till two years ago Israel fully supported financially Hamas for years they did yeah yeah why but they said it was
In Iran that it was clear that Iranian nomenclature needed also a new tension with not a war like now but with Israel to control the situation but wait a minute the same goes for Israel remember what went on in Israel just a couple of month before October attack hundreds of thousands of people mega demonstration against Netanyahu's attempt to take over Supreme Court and so on and so on they they they needed this war that's why here I have a tough question for you maybe you will have you always know how to squeeze out my God you need Gulag you know what I would like just to know more I'm not a conspiracy theorist but what goes on as it were behind the scenes for example this is confirmed it's not paranoia friends from Israel authentic anti-Zionist played to me the audio clips do you know that till two years ago Israel fully supported financially Hamas for years they did yeah yeah why but they said it was
unknown
very clear Netanyahu explained it it's on YouTube he said because it is the only way of ensuring that we will convince the Americans that there will never be a two-state solution if Hamas represented the you know the Palestinian people allow me a Hegelian answer to your question if I can let me try
very clear Netanyahu explained it it's on YouTube he said because it is the only way of ensuring that we will convince the Americans that there will never be a two-state solution if Hamas represented the you know the Palestinian people allow me a Hegelian answer to your question if I can let me try
Slavoj Žižek
it out today I'm in a good mood so you can okay you see this is are you sorry now I make a very serious remark you think we are joking but that's the spirit that we bring we can be radically ethical sacrifice our lives and so on but if this type of simple benevolently evil irony disappears we are in a world where I don't want to live sorry go on I agree entirely look
it out today I'm in a good mood so you can okay you see this is are you sorry now I make a very serious remark you think we are joking but that's the spirit that we bring we can be radically ethical sacrifice our lives and so on but if this type of simple benevolently evil irony disappears we are in a world where I don't want to live sorry go on I agree entirely look
unknown
firstly a point of principle Hamas like every Palestinian Fatah individuals had a duty to attack the fence
firstly a point of principle Hamas like every Palestinian Fatah individuals had a duty to attack the fence
Slavoj Žižek
the fences of the Gazans
the fences of the Gazans
unknown
in a concentration camp Gaza is not a country it is a concentration camp created in anyone subsisting in it not living had a duty to themselves like POW prisoners of war people have the a duty according to the Geneva Convention to escape they had a duty to attack that fence and the centries of the IDF that were there fencing them in they had no right to attack civilians because this is a war crime so I'm making this point directly but I think that Hamas were absolutely right to you know to attack the fence when they did for the reasons that you are advocating because this conflict in the Middle East which begins with a project of white white settlement ethnic cleansing which is the project of the state of Israel which is insists of being a Jewish state like saying imagine saying today that we want England to be a Christian state I mean it's only you know the Robinsons of the world and the ultra fascists who are talking about that in this way or Greece as a Christian state but from my western European you Greeks are orthodox you are not true Christians but that's another point late we have the following situation you describe very
in a concentration camp Gaza is not a country it is a concentration camp created in anyone subsisting in it not living had a duty to themselves like POW prisoners of war people have the a duty according to the Geneva Convention to escape they had a duty to attack that fence and the centries of the IDF that were there fencing them in they had no right to attack civilians because this is a war crime so I'm making this point directly but I think that Hamas were absolutely right to you know to attack the fence when they did for the reasons that you are advocating because this conflict in the Middle East which begins with a project of white white settlement ethnic cleansing which is the project of the state of Israel which is insists of being a Jewish state like saying imagine saying today that we want England to be a Christian state I mean it's only you know the Robinsons of the world and the ultra fascists who are talking about that in this way or Greece as a Christian state but from my western European you Greeks are orthodox you are not true Christians but that's another point late we have the following situation you describe very
Slavoj Žižek
well the inner contradictions within Iranian society as Hegelians and Marxists we have simultaneously to support the woman life freedom movement and not
well the inner contradictions within Iranian society as Hegelians and Marxists we have simultaneously to support the woman life freedom movement and not
unknown
side with the imperialist attempt to subjugate Iran from the United States perspective
side with the imperialist attempt to subjugate Iran from the United States perspective
Slavoj Žižek
of regime change now I want to ask you
of regime change now I want to ask you
unknown
let me let me finish because the Hegelian thing has three components the so you have the inner contradictions of Iran which need to be played out then you have the inner contradictions of Israel because in Israel you have a gigantic clash between the original Ashkenazi European pseudo social democratic conception of the
let me let me finish because the Hegelian thing has three components the so you have the inner contradictions of Iran which need to be played out then you have the inner contradictions of Israel because in Israel you have a gigantic clash between the original Ashkenazi European pseudo social democratic conception of the
Slavoj Žižek
nation state that is Israel versus the
nation state that is Israel versus the
unknown
brutish
brutish
Slavoj Žižek
fascistic
fascistic
unknown
settlers of Judea so you have the Judaist state versus the Judea state this is a clash within Israel and then you have the Arab world where Donald Trump was very successful in his first term to create the Abraham Accords which is essentially takes six Arab states and manage to have a deal with Netanyahu's Israel that essentially freezes the Palestinians out so most of the Arab world agreed that the Palestinians can be allowed to wither to die slowly and perish in silence so this breakthrough when when the Hamas fighters went through the fence essentially allowed the Hegelian dynamic in Israel in the Arab world and in Iran to play itself out how is going to play itself out we know that at the moment a whole people are being pulverized South Lebanon is becoming again killing fields the Israeli society is totally tormented progressive Israelis are abandoning the country they are emigrating leaving it to the fascistic settlers this in the end cannot end well for Israel yeah I totally this cannot end well for Israel so I gave you my attempt at a Hegelian answer no
settlers of Judea so you have the Judaist state versus the Judea state this is a clash within Israel and then you have the Arab world where Donald Trump was very successful in his first term to create the Abraham Accords which is essentially takes six Arab states and manage to have a deal with Netanyahu's Israel that essentially freezes the Palestinians out so most of the Arab world agreed that the Palestinians can be allowed to wither to die slowly and perish in silence so this breakthrough when when the Hamas fighters went through the fence essentially allowed the Hegelian dynamic in Israel in the Arab world and in Iran to play itself out how is going to play itself out we know that at the moment a whole people are being pulverized South Lebanon is becoming again killing fields the Israeli society is totally tormented progressive Israelis are abandoning the country they are emigrating leaving it to the fascistic settlers this in the end cannot end well for Israel yeah I totally this cannot end well for Israel so I gave you my attempt at a Hegelian answer no
Slavoj Žižek
no no I will now although I'm more and more in my old age a common sense man and I'm a little bit of tired this guy all the time mentions Hegel this forget it no seriously I mean good company yeah yeah seriously would you then agree with me another idea came to me you know reactionaries often used to to to to annihilate to to criticize in a brutal racist way so called I don't like the term third world countries they used the way failed state no I say why don't we use this term I will try to give you a precise definition of a failed state very naive in bourgeois terms failed state is for me a state which no longer can reproduce itself without openly relying on illegal gangster bandit forces now of course every conservative will tell me of course look at Haiti primitive state is controlled by gangs I say okay but let's go on Israel is doing is a failed state in this sense look who is Ben-Gvir are you aware that Ben-Gvir who is now that's unimaginable irony even Hegel would get dizzy in this he is now responsible for security public safety on the west years ago he was condemned as a criminal by the Israeli convicted not condemned convicted by the Israeli court so settlers I agree with you they are basically a form of violent gangsterism which was deftly manipulated now it's openly supported for decades by the state of Israel formally they distance themselves from it but and so on and I think same things you find all around in Russia it was similar with Wagner Group yeah first they said no no it's independent then we learn that and even in the United States you know the paradox of Trumpist and other is that yeah for example proud proud boys and so on you have groups here that should awaken you if you are have some sympathy towards authentic Judaism and we both have who are this the new American populist right many of them there's some mistake there erase it it says please don't worry this for me don't worry in four minutes you will you will have to come up with decent questions or indecent questions no what I wanted indecent yeah yeah is that proud boys and so on they are paradoxically anti-semitic and at the same time anti-Arab anti they are a nightmare but nonetheless the state more and more tolerates them this is for me the true problem another problem I wrote a text would you agree while so we live in a world more and more of failed states failed states we don't have to look for them in poor so called third world we get them here in the developed so called west second point your idea of neo-feudalism I wrote a short text maybe you know it techno-feudalism sorry I know I know here we will in Gulag when I will visit you we debate this but sorry so you will visit me yeah maybe we established that I am a warm human being why not okay you know what would you agree or not you know I I always try to ask myself okay big conflicts Gaza Ukraine and so on but horrors are also going on everywhere around now like in Sudan mega war and there is would you agree or not that's the idea came to me we have techno-feudalism big corporations and so on ultra developed but is it not that in many so called sorry for the term third world countries which are I use this term consciously cursed by too much natural wealth the best explanation Marxist friend from Congo gave me is if all the natural wealth mines and so on diamonds were to disappear from Congo it would have been poor but much happier country okay what I'm saying is just like Singapore for instance has no natural resources yeah so my point is simply I will be over very quickly this idea that I studied a little bit the situation in Sudan not South Sudan that's another nightmare you have simply so called it's a fictitious term but I use it because they are in our media a warlord really as a feudal master controls a certain domain and of course sells to big western companies so would you agree or not the sad thing is that we have this big ultra developed techno-feudalism which is more and more accompanied by even more brutal than in the developed middle age brutal true local feudalism you have a warlord who totally controls so even this feudalism has two sides you have we should never forget how our wealth in the west is sustained by extremely brutal conditions so and and local dictatorships and local mirror images of the oligarchies of the west of the oligarchs of the north because we need to go to the Q and A part of our meeting can I share with you something that I missed you you now want to be this is my trick you will say Q and A I will ask you the first question no I'm the co-pilot I'm the co-pilot I am the law and I have it has been bestowed upon me this duty of controlling the don't talk like Stalin yes yeah yeah but look Slavoj we come from a very problematic part of the world the Balkans I miss Yugoslavia do you yes and no and I'm not trying to squeeze out in a pseudo-Hegelian way I will tell you what maybe we will disagree here I was there and since Slovenia is as now our new beloved president not yours but the Donald Trump once said about some country shithole of a country no Slovenia was in a good sense when it became independent shithole of a country in the sense that you know like even under communism general secretary of the party was not a guy whom once a year you saw in a limousine protect it was a guy whom you could meet on the street even without bodyguards because of decentralization yeah and all that so I knew that you know I think maybe you will disagree that the original sin was Milošević who Yugoslavia worked as a certain fragile coalition with many unwritten laws why would I disagree I think Milošević sorry Milošević was a bastard from hell
no no I will now although I'm more and more in my old age a common sense man and I'm a little bit of tired this guy all the time mentions Hegel this forget it no seriously I mean good company yeah yeah seriously would you then agree with me another idea came to me you know reactionaries often used to to to to annihilate to to criticize in a brutal racist way so called I don't like the term third world countries they used the way failed state no I say why don't we use this term I will try to give you a precise definition of a failed state very naive in bourgeois terms failed state is for me a state which no longer can reproduce itself without openly relying on illegal gangster bandit forces now of course every conservative will tell me of course look at Haiti primitive state is controlled by gangs I say okay but let's go on Israel is doing is a failed state in this sense look who is Ben-Gvir are you aware that Ben-Gvir who is now that's unimaginable irony even Hegel would get dizzy in this he is now responsible for security public safety on the west years ago he was condemned as a criminal by the Israeli convicted not condemned convicted by the Israeli court so settlers I agree with you they are basically a form of violent gangsterism which was deftly manipulated now it's openly supported for decades by the state of Israel formally they distance themselves from it but and so on and I think same things you find all around in Russia it was similar with Wagner Group yeah first they said no no it's independent then we learn that and even in the United States you know the paradox of Trumpist and other is that yeah for example proud proud boys and so on you have groups here that should awaken you if you are have some sympathy towards authentic Judaism and we both have who are this the new American populist right many of them there's some mistake there erase it it says please don't worry this for me don't worry in four minutes you will you will have to come up with decent questions or indecent questions no what I wanted indecent yeah yeah is that proud boys and so on they are paradoxically anti-semitic and at the same time anti-Arab anti they are a nightmare but nonetheless the state more and more tolerates them this is for me the true problem another problem I wrote a text would you agree while so we live in a world more and more of failed states failed states we don't have to look for them in poor so called third world we get them here in the developed so called west second point your idea of neo-feudalism I wrote a short text maybe you know it techno-feudalism sorry I know I know here we will in Gulag when I will visit you we debate this but sorry so you will visit me yeah maybe we established that I am a warm human being why not okay you know what would you agree or not you know I I always try to ask myself okay big conflicts Gaza Ukraine and so on but horrors are also going on everywhere around now like in Sudan mega war and there is would you agree or not that's the idea came to me we have techno-feudalism big corporations and so on ultra developed but is it not that in many so called sorry for the term third world countries which are I use this term consciously cursed by too much natural wealth the best explanation Marxist friend from Congo gave me is if all the natural wealth mines and so on diamonds were to disappear from Congo it would have been poor but much happier country okay what I'm saying is just like Singapore for instance has no natural resources yeah so my point is simply I will be over very quickly this idea that I studied a little bit the situation in Sudan not South Sudan that's another nightmare you have simply so called it's a fictitious term but I use it because they are in our media a warlord really as a feudal master controls a certain domain and of course sells to big western companies so would you agree or not the sad thing is that we have this big ultra developed techno-feudalism which is more and more accompanied by even more brutal than in the developed middle age brutal true local feudalism you have a warlord who totally controls so even this feudalism has two sides you have we should never forget how our wealth in the west is sustained by extremely brutal conditions so and and local dictatorships and local mirror images of the oligarchies of the west of the oligarchs of the north because we need to go to the Q and A part of our meeting can I share with you something that I missed you you now want to be this is my trick you will say Q and A I will ask you the first question no I'm the co-pilot I'm the co-pilot I am the law and I have it has been bestowed upon me this duty of controlling the don't talk like Stalin yes yeah yeah but look Slavoj we come from a very problematic part of the world the Balkans I miss Yugoslavia do you yes and no and I'm not trying to squeeze out in a pseudo-Hegelian way I will tell you what maybe we will disagree here I was there and since Slovenia is as now our new beloved president not yours but the Donald Trump once said about some country shithole of a country no Slovenia was in a good sense when it became independent shithole of a country in the sense that you know like even under communism general secretary of the party was not a guy whom once a year you saw in a limousine protect it was a guy whom you could meet on the street even without bodyguards because of decentralization yeah and all that so I knew that you know I think maybe you will disagree that the original sin was Milošević who Yugoslavia worked as a certain fragile coalition with many unwritten laws why would I disagree I think Milošević sorry Milošević was a bastard from hell
unknown
who killed communism in Yugoslavia and self-management yeah that's my point so I don't buy this usual story from some
who killed communism in Yugoslavia and self-management yeah that's my point so I don't buy this usual story from some
Slavoj Žižek
English leftists you Slovenians are even the worst I know
English leftists you Slovenians are even the worst I know
unknown
Slovenia again is a shithole of the country I knew personally at that point general secretary Milan Kučan and others from on they were desperately trying to save Yugoslavia in some slightly
Slovenia again is a shithole of the country I knew personally at that point general secretary Milan Kučan and others from on they were desperately trying to save Yugoslavia in some slightly
Slavoj Žižek
different forum and they failed
different forum and they failed
unknown
so I agree when you said this I agree so we agree again to inject a little bit of
so I agree when you said this I agree so we agree again to inject a little bit of
Slavoj Žižek
interest in this boring consensus of ours yeah the floor is yours let's have some lights on and we have a question from the back of the downstairs room actually no I mean you will decide right I do not want to have this kind of exorbitant power you know how we solve this problem it's easy as a good old Stalinist we should know it you ask for written questions and then you say oh my god we don't have time for all the questions and you censor it you're a bourgeois liberal secretly I'm lots of things all bundled up together okay who is speaking hello you will forgive my we can't see you we can't see you where are you stand up okay good the
interest in this boring consensus of ours yeah the floor is yours let's have some lights on and we have a question from the back of the downstairs room actually no I mean you will decide right I do not want to have this kind of exorbitant power you know how we solve this problem it's easy as a good old Stalinist we should know it you ask for written questions and then you say oh my god we don't have time for all the questions and you censor it you're a bourgeois liberal secretly I'm lots of things all bundled up together okay who is speaking hello you will forgive my we can't see you we can't see you where are you stand up okay good the
unknown
process of digital alienation is
process of digital alienation is
Slavoj Žižek
quite central I think to your recent book Yanis Technofeudalism could you argue that in the way that it takes your data from you as a form of value forgive me I'm anxious don't
quite central I think to your recent book Yanis Technofeudalism could you argue that in the way that it takes your data from you as a form of value forgive me I'm anxious don't
unknown
be too old idiots here don't be go on I'm so
be too old idiots here don't be go on I'm so
Slavoj Žižek
reassured Slavoj
reassured Slavoj
unknown
thank you we are all vermin in the way that it takes your value
thank you we are all vermin in the way that it takes your value
Slavoj Žižek
from you in
from you in
unknown
data and then an
data and then an
Slavoj Žižek
ability to sell things back to you could you argue that this process of digital alienation within technofeudalism serves the Hegelian notion of particularity even better than capitalism in that it cultivates desire in you gives you what you don't even know you want I agree technofeudalism is because of the development of this mutant form of capital cloud capital which
ability to sell things back to you could you argue that this process of digital alienation within technofeudalism serves the Hegelian notion of particularity even better than capitalism in that it cultivates desire in you gives you what you don't even know you want I agree technofeudalism is because of the development of this mutant form of capital cloud capital which
unknown
is completely entirely utterly hardwired in our brains has greater capacities for exploitation false consciousness and alienation so I agree but a question for Slavoj no no sorry I will also briefly I will answer in I hope agreement with you it's that the mystification
is completely entirely utterly hardwired in our brains has greater capacities for exploitation false consciousness and alienation so I agree but a question for Slavoj no no sorry I will also briefly I will answer in I hope agreement with you it's that the mystification
Slavoj Žižek
is even deeper I wonder if you would agree what is absolutely crucial in some sense the other side of technofeudalism big corporation and so on I think maybe I'm one sided here the most fascinating invention of this new no longer capitalism is
is even deeper I wonder if you would agree what is absolutely crucial in some sense the other side of technofeudalism big corporation and so on I think maybe I'm one sided here the most fascinating invention of this new no longer capitalism is
unknown
precarious
precarious
Slavoj Žižek
work why because
work why because
unknown
the way it is sold to you ideologically is there are no workers we are
the way it is sold to you ideologically is there are no workers we are
unknown
all small capitalists
all small capitalists
unknown
you own your own means of production computer and so on
you own your own means of production computer and so on
unknown
service providers yeah service providers and the irony is that then there is no way because if we are were to be both precarious workers I don't see them as the enemy you are my enemy indeed and so you see at the same time it blurs social antagonisms some is capitalist with billions I'm
service providers yeah service providers and the irony is that then there is no way because if we are were to be both precarious workers I don't see them as the enemy you are my enemy indeed and so you see at the same time it blurs social antagonisms some is capitalist with billions I'm
Slavoj Žižek
with but we are all the same it's not just precarious wage laborers it's unwaged laborers every time you upload something on
with but we are all the same it's not just precarious wage laborers it's unwaged laborers every time you upload something on
unknown
Instagram you are performing work for a cloud capitalist which enhances his usually his capacity to play tricks with your mind and modify
Instagram you are performing work for a cloud capitalist which enhances his usually his capacity to play tricks with your mind and modify
unknown
your behavior so that he can use this power to ensure to grab more rents from the rest of society so you agree with this line of thought which was just proposed a bit yes and no that to understand today's post-feudal
your behavior so that he can use this power to ensure to grab more rents from the rest of society so you agree with this line of thought which was just proposed a bit yes and no that to understand today's post-feudal
unknown
whatever capitalism it's crucial to for Marx the development was from rent to profit now it's crucial to understand the return to rent yeah actually the going forward a kind of cloud rent which is based on capital so the difference with feudalism feudalism was not based on capital whereas technofeudalism is based on a hyperversion of capital so
whatever capitalism it's crucial to for Marx the development was from rent to profit now it's crucial to understand the return to rent yeah actually the going forward a kind of cloud rent which is based on capital so the difference with feudalism feudalism was not based on capital whereas technofeudalism is based on a hyperversion of capital so
Slavoj Žižek
Marx would have been ecstatic with the idea that you know and also very horrified but also very energized you know he would never sleep at night he would be writing Das Kapital again in order to take into consideration this new form of capital which essentially makes it necessary for us not only to break our chains but also to break our mind chains because cloud capital is hardwired into it but okay but the one problem that I see so next question is me sorry fuck you to you it's you know where I see a problem with feudalism but I will be very brief I'm sorry but nonetheless capitalism sorry like in the the horror of today's techno-capitalism techno-feudalism is that while in the old level
Marx would have been ecstatic with the idea that you know and also very horrified but also very energized you know he would never sleep at night he would be writing Das Kapital again in order to take into consideration this new form of capital which essentially makes it necessary for us not only to break our chains but also to break our mind chains because cloud capital is hardwired into it but okay but the one problem that I see so next question is me sorry fuck you to you it's you know where I see a problem with feudalism but I will be very brief I'm sorry but nonetheless capitalism sorry like in the the horror of today's techno-capitalism techno-feudalism is that while in the old level
unknown
one feudalism you had a clear position as a serf and so on the horror for me is that this new feudal slavery or servitude is sold to you and people even experience it as the ultimate freedom you do what you want you serve that's the horror for me that's the ideology as you said you are made to believe that you are volunteering everything that you are being served by the
one feudalism you had a clear position as a serf and so on the horror for me is that this new feudal slavery or servitude is sold to you and people even experience it as the ultimate freedom you do what you want you serve that's the horror for me that's the ideology as you said you are made to believe that you are volunteering everything that you are being served by the
Slavoj Žižek
machines when you are serving the machine which is essentially you know more or less the Marxist idea of false consciousness and alienation to the power of N yeah hi yes so I wanted to ask further an extension for the idea of Lacan and Trump because it kind of everything moved very very quickly and I wanted to
machines when you are serving the machine which is essentially you know more or less the Marxist idea of false consciousness and alienation to the power of N yeah hi yes so I wanted to ask further an extension for the idea of Lacan and Trump because it kind of everything moved very very quickly and I wanted to
unknown
know how that factored into the idea of Lacanian enjoyment and what your thoughts were on that in regards to the fact that kind of Trump mobilizes the surplus enjoyment capitalism promises but can never deliver but also that he almost provides this intersection of super-ego and surplus enjoyment and that's to me is what almost knits his appeal but also the idea that knowledge is also a barrier to enjoyment and it's almost one that Trump knocks down and it's shown by the fact that people are so ready to accept the fact that he
know how that factored into the idea of Lacanian enjoyment and what your thoughts were on that in regards to the fact that kind of Trump mobilizes the surplus enjoyment capitalism promises but can never deliver but also that he almost provides this intersection of super-ego and surplus enjoyment and that's to me is what almost knits his appeal but also the idea that knowledge is also a barrier to enjoyment and it's almost one that Trump knocks down and it's shown by the fact that people are so ready to accept the fact that he
Slavoj Žižek
does lie but also in acts like raiding the Capitol it's like he almost circumvents all the knowledge in the world that tells us what all the problems are so I was wondering what I'm so sorry I don't have because to give you a proper answer and the I'm praising your question is like let's take a break and then I talk till no because you know I again part of this in a confused way I develop in my book Surplus Enjoyment my point would be that to understand today's racism anti-feminism Trump and so on you
does lie but also in acts like raiding the Capitol it's like he almost circumvents all the knowledge in the world that tells us what all the problems are so I was wondering what I'm so sorry I don't have because to give you a proper answer and the I'm praising your question is like let's take a break and then I talk till no because you know I again part of this in a confused way I develop in my book Surplus Enjoyment my point would be that to understand today's racism anti-feminism Trump and so on you
unknown
need a category introduced by Lacan years ago of the theft of enjoyment in the sense of it's not just I'm exploited by them but it's either and that's the whole point of way of life the other the intruder wants to
need a category introduced by Lacan years ago of the theft of enjoyment in the sense of it's not just I'm exploited by them but it's either and that's the whole point of way of life the other the intruder wants to
unknown
destroy
destroy
unknown
our way of life rituals the way we
our way of life rituals the way we
unknown
enjoy or they this is the usual form of anti-semitism the Jews have some secret pleasures of their own they escape without this libidinal categories for example in Trump isn't this clear even in a very primitive way people enjoy his dirty jokes and the trick is here that's the danger even if they consciously say it's horrible and so on but they nonetheless enjoy it and that was my reading that's why I'm very ambiguous towards Margaret Atwood Handmaid's Tale I caught myself in my worst anti-feminist racism whatever when I read the book before the TV series and so on and although I said horrible my God what oppression but I was secretly enjoying oh my God now they invent this the bad guys in power that's how they
enjoy or they this is the usual form of anti-semitism the Jews have some secret pleasures of their own they escape without this libidinal categories for example in Trump isn't this clear even in a very primitive way people enjoy his dirty jokes and the trick is here that's the danger even if they consciously say it's horrible and so on but they nonetheless enjoy it and that was my reading that's why I'm very ambiguous towards Margaret Atwood Handmaid's Tale I caught myself in my worst anti-feminist racism whatever when I read the book before the TV series and so on and although I said horrible my God what oppression but I was secretly enjoying oh my God now they invent this the bad guys in power that's how they
Slavoj Žižek
screw women you know I was inventing fascinated by the new and new ways how women are neglected humiliated tortured and so on and so on so never underestimate this and this brings us when you mentioned knowledge no here I must refer to the work of my good friend and I hate her because she is I think now brighter than me Alenka Zupančič who precisely brought out this functioning of ideology today where it's not enough to provide correct knowledge we live in an era of fetishist split where we have this well known formula je sais bien mais quand même I know very well but I don't really subjectively assume it as she Alenka in her last book Disavowal develops today we are moving even a step further that knowledge itself becomes a fetish like we know it all so don't annoy me let's let's do nothing how do I know this a joke at my own account when I was sorry if you know this in psychoanalysis it was a brief personal crisis years ago almost I as you can imagine talked all the time no you are surprised me such a calm guy mostly fuzzy because I was mortally afraid that if I stop talking for a second the analyst may ask me a really hard question so the idea was and I think a lot of the bullshit we say today against global warming and so on is let's talk a lot about it so that we don't have to to think about it sorry yes yeah yeah okay and that's
screw women you know I was inventing fascinated by the new and new ways how women are neglected humiliated tortured and so on and so on so never underestimate this and this brings us when you mentioned knowledge no here I must refer to the work of my good friend and I hate her because she is I think now brighter than me Alenka Zupančič who precisely brought out this functioning of ideology today where it's not enough to provide correct knowledge we live in an era of fetishist split where we have this well known formula je sais bien mais quand même I know very well but I don't really subjectively assume it as she Alenka in her last book Disavowal develops today we are moving even a step further that knowledge itself becomes a fetish like we know it all so don't annoy me let's let's do nothing how do I know this a joke at my own account when I was sorry if you know this in psychoanalysis it was a brief personal crisis years ago almost I as you can imagine talked all the time no you are surprised me such a calm guy mostly fuzzy because I was mortally afraid that if I stop talking for a second the analyst may ask me a really hard question so the idea was and I think a lot of the bullshit we say today against global warming and so on is let's talk a lot about it so that we don't have to to think about it sorry yes yeah yeah okay and that's