Slavoj Žižek on the Velvet Revolution and Vaclav Havel on Czech television
Interview · fediak 22 ·
published 2024-08-23 · 0:28:42 · 2,795 words
the date above is when the video was uploaded, no recording date was found
capitalismcommunism-socialismideologyreligion-theologydemocracyeconomicspsychoanalysishistoryfascism-populismliberalism-political-correctnessecology-climate
An interview in which Žižek argues that liberal capitalism is in a deep, structural deadlock and that the old liberal-progressivist left is bankrupt. He reframes communism as the name of today's shared 'commons' problems (ecology, biogenetics, intellectual property) rather than as a ready-made solution, and reads Christianity as an atheist, emancipatory legacy betrayed by its own institution. He warns that capitalism is decoupling from democracy into more dynamic authoritarian forms, and that reinventing democratic control of the economy without relapsing into totalitarianism is the question of life and death.
every located moment in this recording, click one to read it
The ideas in it 13
in the order they first come up; click a row for what he does with the idea here
as “68 capitalism”
His claim that the legacy of 1968 was almost fully incorporated into the new stage of capitalism, so that today's capitalism IS 68 capitalism.
The tool needed to explain the paradox of today's permission society, where freedom reverses into frustration.
A society that addresses us with permissions ('be authentic', 'be what you really are') rather than duties, producing more oppression, not less.
Used in its material sense: ideology is what guarantees we cannot even imagine a small change to the economic system.
The paradoxical result of the permission society: you think you are free, and your freedom frustrates you more than ever.
as “communism as the name of the problem”
Communism names the shared-commons problems of today, not a ready-made solution; he claims no clear idea of what the solution will be.
The shared substance of our being (nature in ecology, genetics in biogenetics, knowledge as intellectual property) that today's problems concern.
as “the only true utopia”
The reversal that the only real utopia today is to believe things can go on indefinitely the way they are.
as “religion of atheists”
Christianity read as the most atheist of all religions, God dies and what remains is the emancipated egalitarian community of believers.
Read as the emancipated egalitarian community of believers, the core of Christianity left after God dies.
as “emancipatory universality”
The European legacy of fighting, struggling universality he wants to remain faithful to, politically incorrectly 'eurocentric' on its account.
as “global capitalism with a human face”
His ironic label for the reformist ideal of taming capitalism, paralleling the failed 'socialism with a human face', which he says is no long-term solution.
as “really existing socialism”
The 20th-century communist regimes he opposed as a dissident in the eighties, unambiguously rejected here.
Stories he reaches for 4
The Chinese government prohibited alternate-reality and time-travel narratives in all media, fearing people might imagine how things could be different, while in the West we need no ban, we simply cannot imagine it.
“it's clear what they were afraid of if people will think too much about how people could be different.”
Napoleon takes the crown from the Pope and crowns himself; the Pope answers: you want to destroy Christianity, but we the Catholic Church have been doing that for 2000 years and haven't succeeded.
“you want to destroy christianity but believe me you will not succeed. because we. catholic church. are trying to do this already for 2000 years and we didn't.”
When someone says 'don't worry, there is a light at the end of the tunnel,' it usually means another train is coming towards us, a joke against progressive optimism.
“when somebody tells us don't worry, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. this usually for me means it's another train coming towards us.”
A greengrocer puts the official slogan in his shop window; nobody believes in it, not even him, yet he still participates in the ritual, Havel's image of ideology in 'living in truth'.
“doesn't believe in it, nobody believes in it. he still participated in the ritual”
Works invoked 3
Source of the motto 'if there is no god, everything is permitted', which Lacan (and Žižek) inverts.
A 'great fan', the scene where Švejk stands up on the eastern front waving 'don't shoot, there are people here' is his model of a crazy naive innocence he finds lacking in Havel today.
Havel's text he calls 'living in truth', containing the greengrocer example, the ritual of ideology nobody believes but all participate in; he still admires it even as he polemicizes against the later Havel.
People invoked 8
Jacques Lacan positive
Žižek endorses Lacan's inversion of Dostoevsky ('if there is no god, everything is prohibited') and invokes psychoanalysis as the tool to explain today's paradoxes.
Jesus Christ positive
'My jesus christ', the militant Christ who brings a sword and demands hating father and mother; the emancipatory core of Christianity that the institution betrays.
Mikhail Gorbachev negative
Held up as a foil: people laughed at those who thought really existing socialism could be reformed into 'socialism with a human face', and Žižek draws the parallel to the failed ideal of 'global capitalism with a human face'.
Fredric Jameson positive
Žižek says Jameson said thirty years ago that it's easier to imagine the end of the world than a change to capitalism; he agrees and often varies the motif.
Václav Havel positive
Admires Havel's 'living in truth' and the greengrocer example, but says Havel betrayed himself and is now part of the cynical democratic machinery supporting American interventions, 'the model of this tragedy'.
Jan Hus positive
The Czech Protestant revolution (Jan Hus, hussites, taborites) came too early and was more radical than German Protestantism, a great egalitarian radical-democratic element of European tradition underlying his eurocentrism.
Anecdote of Napoleon taking the crown from the Pope and crowning himself; the Pope's reply that the Church has been destroying Christianity for 2000 years is the point.
Fyodor Dostoyevsky positive
Source of the motto 'if there is no god, everything is permitted' from The Brothers Karamazov, used as the foil Lacan inverts.
What it argues
The deadlock of liberal capitalism and the need to raise the big questionsCommunism as the name of the commons-problem, not a solutionThe paradox of the permission society: freedom producing impotenceChristianity as the atheist religion of emancipatory universalityThe decoupling of capitalism from democracy into authoritarian capitalismThe limits of political imagination and the material power of ideologyReinventing democratic mechanisms to steer the economy
Dialectical moves 8
“If there is no god, then everything is prohibited (Lacan's inversion of Dostoevsky).”
The removal of the transcendent guarantor does not free desire but intensifies prohibition, the motto is reversed.
“If there is god, then everything is permitted.”
His further inversion: those who claim to enact god's will (fundamentalists) are licensed to kill, god permits, not prohibits.
“You think you are free; the result is that your free impotence frustrates more than ever.”
Freedom reverses into its opposite: the permission society produces a more intense impotence than outright prohibition did.
“The only true utopia today is to believe that things can go on indefinitely the way they are.”
True utopia is its opposite: faith in the indefinite continuation of the present order is the real fantasy.
“The best managers of capitalism today are the communists.”
The countries where communists hold power are the most dynamic capitalist countries, the apparent opposite turns out to be capitalism's most efficient form.
“Communism is not the name of a solution but the name of the problem.”
Reframe: communism names the shared-commons problems, not a ready-made party or institutional answer.
“The entire history of Christianity is a struggle against the core of the Christian experience.”
The Church as institution negates the emancipatory egalitarian community (the Holy Ghost) it claims to found, Christianity is at war with itself.
“The point is not that he betrayed the left — he never was left; he betrayed himself.”
Havel's betrayal is self-betrayal, not betrayal of a left he never belonged to, the target of the betrayal is repositioned.
Claims 31
asserts
Our entire civilization is in deep crisis and we must question the basic existential presuppositions of our way of life.civilizational crisis
rejects
The liberal-progressivist belief that things automatically move toward a brighter future is wrong; there is no light at the end of the tunnel.liberal progressivism
asserts
Intelligent conservatives, unlike reactionaries, honestly formulate the deadlock we are in without proposing simple solutions, and this honesty is what we need today.honest conservatism vs liberal optimism
reframes
The legacy of 1968 was incorporated into the new stage of capitalism, so that today's capitalism is itself 68 capitalism.legacy of 1968
asserts
We need psychoanalysis to understand our predicament — to explain the paradox of the permission society.psychoanalysis
asserts
We live in a permission society where, despite all permissions, oppression, frustration and even sexual impotence are stronger than ever.permission society
reframes
Lacan's inversion of Dostoevsky is right: if there is no god, then everything is prohibited (not permitted).Dostoevsky's motto
asserts
If there is god, then everything is permitted — fundamentalists do all the killings they want as god's justice.fundamentalism
rejects
He is unambiguously against the 20th-century really existing socialism, having been a dissident in the eighties.really existing socialism
asserts
Today's problems — ecology, biogenetics, intellectual property — are communist problems, problems of the commons.the commons
reframes
Communism is the name of the problem, not the name of a solution; he has no clear idea what the solution will be.communism
asserts
It is easier to imagine the end of the world (ecological catastrophe, an asteroid) than a small change in our economic system.limits of political imagination
asserts
The inability to imagine a change to the economy is the best proof of the material power of ideology.ideology
asserts
The only true utopia today is to believe that things can go on indefinitely the way they are.utopia
asserts
Christianity is the most atheist of all religions, the religion of atheists: God dies and what remains is the Holy Spirit as the emancipated egalitarian community of believers.Christianity
asserts
The entire history of the Christian institution is a struggle against the core of the Christian experience.the Church institution
asserts
He remains faithful to the European legacy of fighting, struggling emancipatory universality — the militant Christ who brings a sword.European universalism
asserts
The eternal marriage between democracy and capitalism is coming to an end: we are getting authoritarian, non-democratic capitalism that is more dynamic and productive than democratic capitalism.authoritarian capitalism
rejects
Neoliberalism was from the beginning an ideology that never corresponded to facts — the United States was never a neoliberal country, the state constantly intervenes in the economy.neoliberalism
asserts
Neoliberal capitalism as such is in big crisis and there is no simple solution.crisis of capitalism
rejects
Neither a return to the social-democratic welfare state nor 'global capitalism with a human face' is a long-term solution — it repeats the failed illusion of socialism with a human face.social-democratic reform
rejects
He is skeptical of direct-democracy movements built on small self-governing communes where everyone knows each other.direct democracy
asserts
The existing liberal-democratic multi-party systems cannot capture the amount of rage and fury today.liberal democracy
asserts
Oppressive apparatuses like prisons are being privatized, and the political process itself is conceived along private market relations — elections as buying the best commodity.privatization of politics
asserts
If we do not break out of the present framework we are approaching catastrophe; the 2008 financial crisis is structural and here to stay.approaching catastrophe
asserts
The big loser of the world crisis is democracy itself, and the danger is that the solution will be authoritarian.democracy in crisis
reframes
The real question is how to reinvent democratic mechanisms to steer and regulate the economy without falling into the old communist totalitarianism — a question of life and death.reinventing democracy
reframes
At the deepest level the crisis is not economic but cultural, theological — a crisis of civilization.depth of the crisis
asserts
The Velvet Revolution shows that the impossible can happen — in the mid-1980s everyone thought communism could not be defeated.possibility of change
reframes
Havel is the model of this tragedy: he started well with 'living in truth' but is now objectively part of the cynical democratic machinery supporting American interventions; he betrayed himself.Václav Havel
asserts
The Czech and Slovene radical Protestant traditions (Jan Hus, the hussites, taborites) came too early and were crushed, but remain great egalitarian radical-democratic elements of the European tradition — which is why he remains eurocentric.radical reformation and eurocentrism
Quotes 12
“if there is no god, then everything is prohibited.”Slavoj Žižek · Lacan's inversion of Dostoevsky
“if there is god then everything is permitted.”Slavoj Žižek · fundamentalism licensed by god
“the only true utopia today it is to believe that things can go on indefinitely the way they are.”Slavoj Žižek · true utopia is its opposite
“you think you are free, the result of it is that your free impotence frustrates more than ever.”Slavoj Žižek · the permission society paradox
“this eternal marriage between democracy and capitalism is coming to an end.”Slavoj Žižek · authoritarian capitalism decoupling
“this for me is the best proof of the material power of ideology.”Slavoj Žižek · ideology blocks imagination
“the time has come again to start raising the big questions.”Slavoj Žižek · crisis demands big questions
“in a very politically incorrect way that i remain eurocentric.”Slavoj Žižek · eurocentrism claimed via the radical reformation
“i don't bring peace, i bring a sword.”Slavoj Žižek · the militant Christ
“the crisis is not economics, but cultural, theological or even the crisis of a civilization.”Slavoj Žižek · depth of the crisis
“what i claim is that communism is the name of the problem”Slavoj Žižek · communism reframed as the problem
“the whole notion of communal life. process of decision and so on. will have to be radically reinvented”Slavoj Žižek · reinventing democracy
Transcript 88 turns
Interviewer
thank you very much. thank you.
thank you very much. thank you.
Slavoj Žižek
good evening,.
good evening,.
Interviewer
o.
o.
Slavoj Žižek
to be cynical, it's just good propaganda. to be that. but. even if it's, of course, totally non-justified because the author of this unit. claim that i am a proto-fascist.
to be cynical, it's just good propaganda. to be that. but. even if it's, of course, totally non-justified because the author of this unit. claim that i am a proto-fascist.
Interviewer
listen
listen
Slavoj Žižek
anti-semitic thinker who plans a new holocaust and so on what is true in this? he he said nonetheless i think that hours entire civilization is in the deep. crisis and that we have to question it. basic existential. presuppositions of our way of life.
anti-semitic thinker who plans a new holocaust and so on what is true in this? he he said nonetheless i think that hours entire civilization is in the deep. crisis and that we have to question it. basic existential. presuppositions of our way of life.
Interviewer
thankla.
thankla.
Slavoj Žižek
if by leftist you mean some kind of a liberal progressist who thinks that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, things are automatically moving towards some brighter future, then i definitely not elected. i share. the same experience in view the experience of really existing socialism and as we know when somebody tells us don't worry, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. this usually for me means it's another train coming towards us. so. but what i really like about intelligent conservatives not reactionaryaries, is that these are usually honest people true. clearly formulates the deadlock. we are in and do not. paints or propose any simple solution. i think this is the first being we need today. that we clearly deceived. the deadlock of our economy liberal capitalism of our political multi party system my insight is simply that we are approaching a whole series of challenges. economique. ecological, even biogenetics and so on. weak. all these problems. cannot be sch. we the existing framework of our political economic and ideological system the time has come again to start raising the big questions.
if by leftist you mean some kind of a liberal progressist who thinks that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, things are automatically moving towards some brighter future, then i definitely not elected. i share. the same experience in view the experience of really existing socialism and as we know when somebody tells us don't worry, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. this usually for me means it's another train coming towards us. so. but what i really like about intelligent conservatives not reactionaryaries, is that these are usually honest people true. clearly formulates the deadlock. we are in and do not. paints or propose any simple solution. i think this is the first being we need today. that we clearly deceived. the deadlock of our economy liberal capitalism of our political multi party system my insight is simply that we are approaching a whole series of challenges. economique. ecological, even biogenetics and so on. weak. all these problems. cannot be sch. we the existing framework of our political economic and ideological system the time has come again to start raising the big questions.
Interviewer
thank you very. ob.
thank you very. ob.
Slavoj Žižek
well, to be frank, i didn't support the last. because i think that what happened afterwards? the way the legacy of 68 was. almost fully. incorporated ein zu. the new stage of capitalism. develop. this capitalism is 68. capitalism. a lot. about the limits of . so i'm not left in here. check. sense'm leftist in a much more radical sense i claim. this is why i'm still faithful to the legacy of death. to understand our predicament based. we need psycho analysis. what psychoanalysis can explain is precisely the paradox of today. on the one hand, we live apparently in a permission society. everything at least of course only at the level of private freedom.
well, to be frank, i didn't support the last. because i think that what happened afterwards? the way the legacy of 68 was. almost fully. incorporated ein zu. the new stage of capitalism. develop. this capitalism is 68. capitalism. a lot. about the limits of . so i'm not left in here. check. sense'm leftist in a much more radical sense i claim. this is why i'm still faithful to the legacy of death. to understand our predicament based. we need psycho analysis. what psychoanalysis can explain is precisely the paradox of today. on the one hand, we live apparently in a permission society. everything at least of course only at the level of private freedom.
Interviewer
thank.
thank.
Slavoj Žižek
if us, we can do whatever we want. forms of sexuality and so on. even the ruling ideology today no longer addresses us.. subject with a certain duty society is not telling us today sacrifice yourself for democracy socialism whatsoever it's telling us what
if us, we can do whatever we want. forms of sexuality and so on. even the ruling ideology today no longer addresses us.. subject with a certain duty society is not telling us today sacrifice yourself for democracy socialism whatsoever it's telling us what
Interviewer
m
m
Slavoj Žižek
be authentic, be what you really are. have a good life and so on and so on with all these permissions, oppression, frustration, even sexuality, impotence stronger than ever. i think that jacques lacan was right when he claims that we should turn around dostoevsky's famous motto from the brothers karamazov. you remember, if there is no god, then everything is permitted. lacan claims no. it's the opposite. if there is no god, then everything is prohibited. and i would like to add to each: if there is god then everything is permitted. ghosts who play that they are the true representatives of god's will. if you are a fundamentalist today you can do all the killings you want, you are doing god's justice. so again, we live in a very paradoxical society where things turn into their opposite. you think you are free, the result of it is that your free impotence frustrates more than ever.
be authentic, be what you really are. have a good life and so on and so on with all these permissions, oppression, frustration, even sexuality, impotence stronger than ever. i think that jacques lacan was right when he claims that we should turn around dostoevsky's famous motto from the brothers karamazov. you remember, if there is no god, then everything is permitted. lacan claims no. it's the opposite. if there is no god, then everything is prohibited. and i would like to add to each: if there is god then everything is permitted. ghosts who play that they are the true representatives of god's will. if you are a fundamentalist today you can do all the killings you want, you are doing god's justice. so again, we live in a very paradoxical society where things turn into their opposite. you think you are free, the result of it is that your free impotence frustrates more than ever.
Interviewer
i know. thank you very. até que na, se a schots é comunismo.
i know. thank you very. até que na, se a schots é comunismo.
Slavoj Žižek
what do first i like your question because you go directly. to defend the point. first a question of let me be very clear here. if you mean by communism the 20th century comm. new, the so-called really existing socialism. then i'm unambiguously totally against it i was a dissident in the eighties i watched. unemployed for long years i wasn't allowed to university. all are inflaming and only in this sense i am a communist. that. eh liberal demokats capital.
what do first i like your question because you go directly. to defend the point. first a question of let me be very clear here. if you mean by communism the 20th century comm. new, the so-called really existing socialism. then i'm unambiguously totally against it i was a dissident in the eighties i watched. unemployed for long years i wasn't allowed to university. all are inflaming and only in this sense i am a communist. that. eh liberal demokats capital.
Interviewer
yeah.
yeah.
Slavoj Žižek
is today showing its. we we have begin to think in a radical way end death. the problems that patients today are. communist problems in the sense of they are all problems of commons of our shared. legacy. common substance of our being. what is ecology? it is the problem of commons of nature, which should be here as the natural substance of our being. biogenetics is the genetic substance. intellectual property is the intellectual substance of knowledge. so communism for me is not the name of a solution. i'm not a. i don't believe we need a new leninist party or whatever. what i claim is that communism is the name of the problem good idea what the solution will be. i don't have any clear idea. all i know is that is. things are allowed. to go on. the way. that spontaneously developed today we are approaching a crisis.
is today showing its. we we have begin to think in a radical way end death. the problems that patients today are. communist problems in the sense of they are all problems of commons of our shared. legacy. common substance of our being. what is ecology? it is the problem of commons of nature, which should be here as the natural substance of our being. biogenetics is the genetic substance. intellectual property is the intellectual substance of knowledge. so communism for me is not the name of a solution. i'm not a. i don't believe we need a new leninist party or whatever. what i claim is that communism is the name of the problem good idea what the solution will be. i don't have any clear idea. all i know is that is. things are allowed. to go on. the way. that spontaneously developed today we are approaching a crisis.
Interviewer
thank you very much. ischer pr.
thank you very much. ischer pr.
Slavoj Žižek
uh. i wonder who said this because from what i know fredric jameson said this already 30 years ago and again i agree with both of them. i also often made variations on this motif. this limits of our political imagination. all the movies that we see today, how the civilization will end, ecological catastrophe, asteroid hitting earth, that's easy to imagine. it's very difficult to imagine a small change in our economic.
uh. i wonder who said this because from what i know fredric jameson said this already 30 years ago and again i agree with both of them. i also often made variations on this motif. this limits of our political imagination. all the movies that we see today, how the civilization will end, ecological catastrophe, asteroid hitting earth, that's easy to imagine. it's very difficult to imagine a small change in our economic.
Interviewer
system.
system.
Slavoj Žižek
this this for me is the best proof of the material power of ideology. it is ideology which guarantees that we cannot even imagine let change. let me tell you a beautiful anecdote. a couple of months ago, the chinese government prohibited in all narrative media, movies, tv, novels. all stories we deal with. alternate reality and time travel. it's clear what they were afraid of if people will think too much about how people could be different. we don't even need this prohibition we are simply unable to imagine such a perspective but i think that again the time is approaching when we will
this this for me is the best proof of the material power of ideology. it is ideology which guarantees that we cannot even imagine let change. let me tell you a beautiful anecdote. a couple of months ago, the chinese government prohibited in all narrative media, movies, tv, novels. all stories we deal with. alternate reality and time travel. it's clear what they were afraid of if people will think too much about how people could be different. we don't even need this prohibition we are simply unable to imagine such a perspective but i think that again the time is approaching when we will
Interviewer
check.
check.
Slavoj Žižek
something imagine something new. because i think that and this is my answer to those who claim that time is utopia the only true utopia today it is to believe that things can go on indefinitely the way they are. so no, i don't believe in any big salvation or whatever. i think much more of a pessimist here. and if i may just briefly connect this to the previous question by you, which i left unanswered a crucial question.. for me, christianity is the most eight days off all religion it in a way the religion of eight these. what happens in christianity is that god dich? god is for me the name for faith, for some higher. transcendent power and all that remains is holy spirit, holy ghost. we see. simply the emancipated egalitarian community of believe us. and i claim that the entire history of christianity. an institution a big. str. against this core of the christian experience. you know, there is another wonderful anecdote when napoleon was crowned by the pope as emperor she simply took the crown out of pope's hands and put it himself onto his head and the pope answered napoleon i know what you want to do. you want to destroy christianity but believe me you will not succeed. because we. catholic church. are trying to do this already for 2000 years and we didn't.
something imagine something new. because i think that and this is my answer to those who claim that time is utopia the only true utopia today it is to believe that things can go on indefinitely the way they are. so no, i don't believe in any big salvation or whatever. i think much more of a pessimist here. and if i may just briefly connect this to the previous question by you, which i left unanswered a crucial question.. for me, christianity is the most eight days off all religion it in a way the religion of eight these. what happens in christianity is that god dich? god is for me the name for faith, for some higher. transcendent power and all that remains is holy spirit, holy ghost. we see. simply the emancipated egalitarian community of believe us. and i claim that the entire history of christianity. an institution a big. str. against this core of the christian experience. you know, there is another wonderful anecdote when napoleon was crowned by the pope as emperor she simply took the crown out of pope's hands and put it himself onto his head and the pope answered napoleon i know what you want to do. you want to destroy christianity but believe me you will not succeed. because we. catholic church. are trying to do this already for 2000 years and we didn't.
Interviewer
sex.
sex.
Slavoj Žižek
so again. i am for this european
so again. i am for this european
Interviewer
christian.
christian.
Slavoj Žižek
legacy the legacy of an of fighting, struggling emancipatory universality. my jesus christ is the christ who, if you don't hate your father and mother your brothers and sisters, you are not my followers. i am for christ who says: i don't bring peace, i bring a sword.
legacy the legacy of an of fighting, struggling emancipatory universality. my jesus christ is the christ who, if you don't hate your father and mother your brothers and sisters, you are not my followers. i am for christ who says: i don't bring peace, i bring a sword.
Interviewer
raz... thank you very much. thank you very much.
raz... thank you very much. thank you very much.
Slavoj Žižek
okay.
okay.
Interviewer
nov vejo capitalismo.
nov vejo capitalismo.
Slavoj Žižek
no the situation is simply open again you ask a very good question
no the situation is simply open again you ask a very good question
Interviewer
yeah
yeah
Slavoj Žižek
we live in an era where as were the old. sk. chest. or. and that and ironic revent it was defeated in 1990. but what is emerging today is that precisely those countries like china where communists are still in power are. the most dynamic brutally dynamic capitalist countries. it is as if the best managers of capitalism today are. god. what does this mean? it means something very tragic and dangerous. it means death and death's my pessimism. phys. it means that today this eternal... marriage. between democracy and capitalism is coming to an end. we are now getting more and more capitalism.
we live in an era where as were the old. sk. chest. or. and that and ironic revent it was defeated in 1990. but what is emerging today is that precisely those countries like china where communists are still in power are. the most dynamic brutally dynamic capitalist countries. it is as if the best managers of capitalism today are. god. what does this mean? it means something very tragic and dangerous. it means death and death's my pessimism. phys. it means that today this eternal... marriage. between democracy and capitalism is coming to an end. we are now getting more and more capitalism.
Interviewer
with fish.
with fish.
Slavoj Žižek
authoritarian fundamentally non-democratic and as such more dynamic, successful, productive than our. democratic. capitalism. should give us to think. what's happening with capitalism? nice.
authoritarian fundamentally non-democratic and as such more dynamic, successful, productive than our. democratic. capitalism. should give us to think. what's happening with capitalism? nice.
Interviewer
thank you m je com de con e que, você tá tá.
thank you m je com de con e que, você tá tá.
Slavoj Žižek
i'm here this may surprise you but i'm feel much more pessimist than it may appear of course the first liberal capitalism is in crisis what we are now experiencing is not only the limit of neoliberalism, but it's becoming more and more clear that neoliberalism was from the very beginning an ideology. never corresponded to facts like is united states a neoliberal country? are you crazy? there was never in history of humanity a stronger state apparatus. state all the time intervenes into economy, regulates economy and so on and so on. so again, the tendency of today capitalism is towards already towards a new more authoritarian for us.
i'm here this may surprise you but i'm feel much more pessimist than it may appear of course the first liberal capitalism is in crisis what we are now experiencing is not only the limit of neoliberalism, but it's becoming more and more clear that neoliberalism was from the very beginning an ideology. never corresponded to facts like is united states a neoliberal country? are you crazy? there was never in history of humanity a stronger state apparatus. state all the time intervenes into economy, regulates economy and so on and so on. so again, the tendency of today capitalism is towards already towards a new more authoritarian for us.
Interviewer
mm
mm
Slavoj Žižek
what is the solution? you mentioned before europe is in a crisis europe with its welfare state modern maybe but don't forget that the big explosion of the crisis was in the united states which precisely never was. european welfare state so i wouldn't say european welfare state capitalism is in a crisis capitalism as such. neoliberal capitalism, if any. ish in a big crisis today and again i don't see any simple solution
what is the solution? you mentioned before europe is in a crisis europe with its welfare state modern maybe but don't forget that the big explosion of the crisis was in the united states which precisely never was. european welfare state so i wouldn't say european welfare state capitalism is in a crisis capitalism as such. neoliberal capitalism, if any. ish in a big crisis today and again i don't see any simple solution
Interviewer
uh. thank you very much.
uh. thank you very much.
Slavoj Žižek
no, this is precisely the.
no, this is precisely the.
Interviewer
mm
mm
Slavoj Žižek
utopia, you know. twenty thirty years ago we were laughing at people like gorbachev and so on. who thought that really existing socialism can be easily reformed to a socialism with a human face and so on and so forth. at that point, all who really understood the soviet system knew the decision. un unfortunately i have the same opinion. good day. the ideal of many people who are critical towards the present state of things is, let's call it ironically global capitalism with a human
utopia, you know. twenty thirty years ago we were laughing at people like gorbachev and so on. who thought that really existing socialism can be easily reformed to a socialism with a human face and so on and so forth. at that point, all who really understood the soviet system knew the decision. un unfortunately i have the same opinion. good day. the ideal of many people who are critical towards the present state of things is, let's call it ironically global capitalism with a human
Interviewer
thanks.
thanks.
Slavoj Žižek
of course many things can be done. but in the long term. this i claim is not a solution.
of course many things can be done. but in the long term. this i claim is not a solution.
Interviewer
thank..
thank..
Slavoj Žižek
the beginning.
the beginning.
Interviewer
so sustene.
so sustene.
Slavoj Žižek
who knows i think the a situation of true freedom an open situation we have now two competing. models we have. this global liberal capitalism and we have different forms of fundamentalist answers. from authoritarian tendencies in the west to third world totalitarianisms and so on and so on i think this is part of the internal dynamic of capitalista. and the whole problem is how to break. out of this. okay, i can give you. just further elements of the crisis for example i don't think we can simply return to the social democratic welfare state it's. she. i am even more skeptical about all these movements for direct democracy, you know, like social democracy, small units where people can practice direct contact, they all know each other and so on and so on. this.
who knows i think the a situation of true freedom an open situation we have now two competing. models we have. this global liberal capitalism and we have different forms of fundamentalist answers. from authoritarian tendencies in the west to third world totalitarianisms and so on and so on i think this is part of the internal dynamic of capitalista. and the whole problem is how to break. out of this. okay, i can give you. just further elements of the crisis for example i don't think we can simply return to the social democratic welfare state it's. she. i am even more skeptical about all these movements for direct democracy, you know, like social democracy, small units where people can practice direct contact, they all know each other and so on and so on. this.
Interviewer
pro ch...
pro ch...
Slavoj Žižek
so what i'm saying is that. the whole notion of communal life. process of decision and so on. will have to be radically reinvented the crucial point today is the following one the existing liberal democratic multi party systems cannot capture the amount of rage of fury today. the mystery of protest involves strict and so on. it's easy to say okay they democracy
so what i'm saying is that. the whole notion of communal life. process of decision and so on. will have to be radically reinvented the crucial point today is the following one the existing liberal democratic multi party systems cannot capture the amount of rage of fury today. the mystery of protest involves strict and so on. it's easy to say okay they democracy
Interviewer
look.
look.
Slavoj Žižek
former.
former.
Interviewer
thank you very much.
thank you very much.
Slavoj Žižek
are you sorry, no, no. if i can just complement your question are you aware how far this process has already gone for example do you know that in some of the western states united states, united kingdom and so on they are even privatizing oppressive apparatuses. prisons are largely privatized in the united states. the idea is even that more and more we will get private security companies which will make worse and even the political process itself is conceived along the private market relations. elections are. the market process. where by way of voting we buy as it were the best commodity the best option of how to govern.
are you sorry, no, no. if i can just complement your question are you aware how far this process has already gone for example do you know that in some of the western states united states, united kingdom and so on they are even privatizing oppressive apparatuses. prisons are largely privatized in the united states. the idea is even that more and more we will get private security companies which will make worse and even the political process itself is conceived along the private market relations. elections are. the market process. where by way of voting we buy as it were the best commodity the best option of how to govern.
Interviewer
y chance.
y chance.
Slavoj Žižek
and if i may add another sorry, please.
and if i may add another sorry, please.
Interviewer
i.
i.
Slavoj Žižek
please.
please.
Interviewer
thank you
thank you
Slavoj Žižek
i... all i believe. is that if we don't break out. of the president. m then we are effectively approaching catastrophe. and the signs are here. do you remember in 2008? when the present financial crisis began, the first reaction was, oh, it's just some question of laws, banks were not enough regulated and so on. now more and more we are discovering that the crisis is here to stay. it's a structural crisis. what i fear is in every crisis thatbt.
i... all i believe. is that if we don't break out. of the president. m then we are effectively approaching catastrophe. and the signs are here. do you remember in 2008? when the present financial crisis began, the first reaction was, oh, it's just some question of laws, banks were not enough regulated and so on. now more and more we are discovering that the crisis is here to stay. it's a structural crisis. what i fear is in every crisis thatbt.
Interviewer
tiste pessim.
tiste pessim.
Slavoj Žižek
will be an authoritarian one.
will be an authoritarian one.
Interviewer
peroamente,...
peroamente,...
Slavoj Žižek
what is the danger today. i think that those economists philosophers who claim that the big. lose their. in this world crisis is and will be more and more democracy itself. i agree with that. the big problems. i see is how to reinvent democratic. mechanism. sc. control steer regulate economy without falling into the old communist totalitarian trend. this is for me the question today of life and dead. and sorry if you will not tell me that i give no i do that. nonetheless, we should be aware that at the deepest level. the crisis is not economics, but cultural, theological or even the crisis of a civilization. the beginning off.
what is the danger today. i think that those economists philosophers who claim that the big. lose their. in this world crisis is and will be more and more democracy itself. i agree with that. the big problems. i see is how to reinvent democratic. mechanism. sc. control steer regulate economy without falling into the old communist totalitarian trend. this is for me the question today of life and dead. and sorry if you will not tell me that i give no i do that. nonetheless, we should be aware that at the deepest level. the crisis is not economics, but cultural, theological or even the crisis of a civilization. the beginning off.
Interviewer
thank you very much. eu eu ver seja... ..
thank you very much. eu eu ver seja... ..
Slavoj Žižek
no, first, let me repeat my admiration for the velvet
no, first, let me repeat my admiration for the velvet
Interviewer
mm
mm
Slavoj Žižek
revolution it. this show how things which were considered impossible can nonetheless be done the same question that you are asking me now but how can i imagine a change is the change possible don't forget that even in the midst 1980 eighty, everyone thought communism cannot be defeated. it's sheer state. we learned there the impossible sometimes can what i'm only saying is
revolution it. this show how things which were considered impossible can nonetheless be done the same question that you are asking me now but how can i imagine a change is the change possible don't forget that even in the midst 1980 eighty, everyone thought communism cannot be defeated. it's sheer state. we learned there the impossible sometimes can what i'm only saying is
Interviewer
dead.
dead.
Slavoj Žižek
okay, i will answer you. for me, he is the model of this tragedy. because he started well, i still admire his famous text living in truth, i think, where he uses that beautiful example of the greengrocer who puts the slogan in the window of his store, and even
okay, i will answer you. for me, he is the model of this tragedy. because he started well, i still admire his famous text living in truth, i think, where he uses that beautiful example of the greengrocer who puts the slogan in the window of his store, and even
Interviewer
thank.
thank.
Slavoj Žižek
doesn't believe in it, nobody believes in it. he still participated in the ritual and so on and so on.
doesn't believe in it, nobody believes in it. he still participated in the ritual and so on and so on.
Interviewer
v va.
v va.
Slavoj Žižek
and now.
and now.
Interviewer
we..
we..
Slavoj Žižek
no first i don't remember where i compared them and on the contrary i'm a great fan of švejk not just for obvious reasons. i like a certain almost crazy naivety of švejk. you know which good soldier švejk is for me actual. you remember that wonderful scene from the novel good soldier švejk where švejk is on the eastern front and where soldiers from one side of the front start to shoot, švejk stands up and starts to wave and say don't shoot there are people here don't shoot and so on. i love this kind of naive, please. so if anything havel is now not enough of a švejk. he was a good švejk thirty years ago. now he is just objectively part of the cynical democratic machinery supporting all american interventions and so on and so on
no first i don't remember where i compared them and on the contrary i'm a great fan of švejk not just for obvious reasons. i like a certain almost crazy naivety of švejk. you know which good soldier švejk is for me actual. you remember that wonderful scene from the novel good soldier švejk where švejk is on the eastern front and where soldiers from one side of the front start to shoot, švejk stands up and starts to wave and say don't shoot there are people here don't shoot and so on. i love this kind of naive, please. so if anything havel is now not enough of a švejk. he was a good švejk thirty years ago. now he is just objectively part of the cynical democratic machinery supporting all american interventions and so on and so on
Interviewer
t.
t.
Slavoj Žižek
betray him.
betray him.
Interviewer
that you should say something.
that you should say something.
Slavoj Žižek
the point is not he betrayed the left he never was them he betrayed himself.
the point is not he betrayed the left he never was them he betrayed himself.
Interviewer
thank you..
thank you..
Slavoj Žižek
absolutely. with pleasure. i mean, i think that the tragedy, historical tragedy of czech nation is similar to the tragedy of slovenia, where i come from. your protestant revolution, jan hus, the hussites, taborites and so on, came too early. but you were much more radical than the german protestantism. in the same way in slovenia, we had a brief period of protestantism, it was brutally crushed and then it stifled all our cultural life for three centuries and so on. i have great admiration for that period of czech
absolutely. with pleasure. i mean, i think that the tragedy, historical tragedy of czech nation is similar to the tragedy of slovenia, where i come from. your protestant revolution, jan hus, the hussites, taborites and so on, came too early. but you were much more radical than the german protestantism. in the same way in slovenia, we had a brief period of protestantism, it was brutally crushed and then it stifled all our cultural life for three centuries and so on. i have great admiration for that period of czech
Interviewer
story.
story.
Slavoj Žižek
i think it's one of the great egalitarian radical democratic elements of european tradition. it is because of movements like that that i remain. without any shade in a very politically incorrect way that i remain eurocentric.
i think it's one of the great egalitarian radical democratic elements of european tradition. it is because of movements like that that i remain. without any shade in a very politically incorrect way that i remain eurocentric.
Interviewer
it. savinski, phil, psychoanalytiqueique,,. .
it. savinski, phil, psychoanalytiqueique,,. .
Slavoj Žižek
.
.