Slavoj Zizek on Trump and Brexit - BBC News
Interview · BBC News ·
2017-01-17 · 0:08:25 · 1,397 words
capitalismideologydemocracyrevolution-violencefascism-populismliberalism-political-correctness
Žižek argues that Trump’s election is not an anomaly but a symptom of the left democratic establishment’s failure, specifically its inability to offer a viable alternative to global capitalism. He critiques the liberal left’s reliance on post-factual comedy and moralizing, contrasting this with the need for a radical reinvention of the welfare state and internationalism. He extends this analysis to Brexit and the rise of figures like Marine Le Pen, warning that without a new left vision, the future belongs to nationalist-conservative figures integrated into global capitalism.
every located moment in this recording, click one to read it
The ideas in it 6
in the order they first come up; click a row for what he does with the idea here
as “symptal healing”
A medical metaphor for treating a symptom (Trump) with a pill to stop pain without curing the underlying disease (the failure of the left/capitalism).
as “public morality”
The customs of how we are allowed to speak in public, which Trump represents through their disintegration.
A concept from T.S. Eliot suggesting that sometimes orthodoxy (left-liberal) can only be saved through radical heresy (Trump's disruption).
The unwritten rules and customs of how politics is actually run, which have broken down.
The new political formula: figures like Putin and Modi who are fully integrated into global capitalism but maintain a nationalist-conservative stance.
The liberal left's reliance on arrogant, half-joking comic commentary (e.g., Jon Stewart) that patronizes ordinary people rather than engaging with them seriously.
Stories he reaches for 1
Cites British conservative poet T.S. Eliot’s idea that sometimes the only way to save religious orthodoxy is through radical heresy, applying this to left-liberal orthodoxy.
“T.S. Eliot said at some point that sometimes in a religion the only way to save the orthodoxy is through radical heresy”
Works invoked 1
TTIP other
Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, cited as an international agreement the left currently only opposes without offering a better alternative.
People invoked 11
Narendra Modi negative
Cited alongside Putin as an example of the new nationalist-conservative integration into global capitalism.
Marine Le Pen negative
Cited as an example of the dangerous replication of Trump-like phenomena in France.
John Oliver negative
Cited alongside Stewart as an example of the liberal left's failed political commentary style.
Jon Stewart negative
Cited as an example of the liberal left's 'post-factual' approach, characterized as arrogant and patronizing.
Donald Trump negative
Described as a 'catastrophe' and 'horror,' but analyzed as a symptom of the failure of the left democratic establishment.
Bernie Sanders positive
Cited as a potential source of shock and redefinition for the Democratic Party, representing a hope for the left.
T. S. Eliot positive
Described as an 'intelligent conservative' whose quote about radical heresy saving orthodoxy is used to frame Trump's disruptive role.
Hillary Clinton negative
Personality is not the issue, but the vision she stands for (pro-capitalist, pro-LGBT, pro-abortion) is seen as coming to an end.
Vladimir Putin negative
Cited as part of the 'new formula' of presidents like Modi who are nationalist-conservative but integrated into global capitalism.
Noam Chomsky positive
Acknowledges Chomsky doesn't like him, but uses Chomsky's concept of 'manufacturing consent' to describe the broken political customs.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel positive
Žižek references his own book on Hegel to contrast his substantive work with the superficiality of post-factual commentary.
Transcript 17 turns
Slavoj Žižek
First to avoid all misunderstandings I am horrified at Trump he is a catastrophe but what we should never forget that he is the result of some process and to cut a long story short this process is the disintegration the failure of left democratic establishment so if we just fight Trump now it's just what in medicine they call symptomal healing you take a pill so that it doesn't hurt but to cure the disease something has to happen in
First to avoid all misunderstandings I am horrified at Trump he is a catastrophe but what we should never forget that he is the result of some process and to cut a long story short this process is the disintegration the failure of left democratic establishment so if we just fight Trump now it's just what in medicine they call symptomal healing you take a pill so that it doesn't hurt but to cure the disease something has to happen in
unknown
Democratic Party we'll talk about that cause in a moment but I mean you explained your position just now but back in November you did say if you were American you'd vote for Trump because the alternative Hillary was even worse I mean why did an avowed Marxist come to that conclusion it was a very cynical reasoning
Democratic Party we'll talk about that cause in a moment but I mean you explained your position just now but back in November you did say if you were American you'd vote for Trump because the alternative Hillary was even worse I mean why did an avowed Marxist come to that conclusion it was a very cynical reasoning
Slavoj Žižek
because my hope was precisely that if Trump is elected president everyone will be shocked horrified at this horror and something will happen like Bernie Sanders and so on in the Democratic Party it was not that I'm in any sense for Trump Trump is horror not only as to content of what he's doing but in the form of his activity he means disintegration of public morality you can today tell publicly things that if years ago you were to tell them you would be mocked proclaimed an idiot it's a moral disintegration and although a Marxist I am a very serious moralist here I think that public morality or rather customs how we are allowed to speak in public matter I'll come back to that point but your
because my hope was precisely that if Trump is elected president everyone will be shocked horrified at this horror and something will happen like Bernie Sanders and so on in the Democratic Party it was not that I'm in any sense for Trump Trump is horror not only as to content of what he's doing but in the form of his activity he means disintegration of public morality you can today tell publicly things that if years ago you were to tell them you would be mocked proclaimed an idiot it's a moral disintegration and although a Marxist I am a very serious moralist here I think that public morality or rather customs how we are allowed to speak in public matter I'll come back to that point but your
unknown
analysis your analysis though of what would happen if he won that Republicans and Democrats would have to go back to basics have a rethink that was wrong wasn't it why yes it was because if you look at the Republicans the Senate with him the House with him the Republicans have rolled over and are having their tummy tickled you have a line of people who said it was beyond the pale now going into Trump Tower trying to get a job with him there's been no
analysis your analysis though of what would happen if he won that Republicans and Democrats would have to go back to basics have a rethink that was wrong wasn't it why yes it was because if you look at the Republicans the Senate with him the House with him the Republicans have rolled over and are having their tummy tickled you have a line of people who said it was beyond the pale now going into Trump Tower trying to get a job with him there's been no
Slavoj Žižek
rethink let's take some time let's first in Republican Party let's take some time you will see they are already split on social measures because it's clear that Trump's politics is inconsistent he has even some leftist elements he wants so much public public investments in collective work projects and so on that no leftist dares to do this I predict that although he may succeed for some time but there will be going on disarray in Republican Party but especially my hope is maybe I'm wrong I admit it that the Democratic Party will find the strength to redefine itself your own British conservative poet and I like intelligent conservatism T.S. Eliot said at some point that sometimes in a religion the only way to save the orthodoxy is through radical heresy I think that again a certain left-liberal orthodoxy the people who go together in Davos these people pro-abortion pro-LGBT but totally pro-capitalist this vision embodied by Hillary Clinton I have nothing against her personally but we know what I mean the vision that she stands for is coming to an end
rethink let's take some time let's first in Republican Party let's take some time you will see they are already split on social measures because it's clear that Trump's politics is inconsistent he has even some leftist elements he wants so much public public investments in collective work projects and so on that no leftist dares to do this I predict that although he may succeed for some time but there will be going on disarray in Republican Party but especially my hope is maybe I'm wrong I admit it that the Democratic Party will find the strength to redefine itself your own British conservative poet and I like intelligent conservatism T.S. Eliot said at some point that sometimes in a religion the only way to save the orthodoxy is through radical heresy I think that again a certain left-liberal orthodoxy the people who go together in Davos these people pro-abortion pro-LGBT but totally pro-capitalist this vision embodied by Hillary Clinton I have nothing against her personally but we know what I mean the vision that she stands for is coming to an end
unknown
you think that because Davos opening we've been covering that today and in a sense if you look at both Brexit and the Trump victory it was almost a scream from people that they didn't feel connected with all of those things you've just described that you think are typified by Davos do you think therefore their influence is on the wane or simply will it morph into something else to accommodate what has happened
you think that because Davos opening we've been covering that today and in a sense if you look at both Brexit and the Trump victory it was almost a scream from people that they didn't feel connected with all of those things you've just described that you think are typified by Davos do you think therefore their influence is on the wane or simply will it morph into something else to accommodate what has happened
Slavoj Žižek
no I think problem is the problem is much more serious in what sense Noam Chomsky who doesn't like me likes to use the expression manufacturing consent all those unwritten rules of how politics is actually run the customs all this broke down now something that shouldn't have happened did happen with the election of Trump but not only this look at what happened here in the UK with Brexit even more important look what's happening in France with Marine Le Pen look what already happened in Poland and so on and I think do you think the Brexit in other European countries there is a danger of it replicating all these phenomena are deeply ambiguous the ABC the basic axiom for me is that
no I think problem is the problem is much more serious in what sense Noam Chomsky who doesn't like me likes to use the expression manufacturing consent all those unwritten rules of how politics is actually run the customs all this broke down now something that shouldn't have happened did happen with the election of Trump but not only this look at what happened here in the UK with Brexit even more important look what's happening in France with Marine Le Pen look what already happened in Poland and so on and I think do you think the Brexit in other European countries there is a danger of it replicating all these phenomena are deeply ambiguous the ABC the basic axiom for me is that
unknown
paradoxically
paradoxically
Slavoj Žižek
at least part of the Trump support and Bernie Sanders' support draw from the same source of popular rage and I think the ultimate reason of Trump's success is the failure of the left to capitalize on this popular rage to offer a feasible alternative vision
at least part of the Trump support and Bernie Sanders' support draw from the same source of popular rage and I think the ultimate reason of Trump's success is the failure of the left to capitalize on this popular rage to offer a feasible alternative vision
unknown
that's the big problem but it's exactly your analysis exactly the same when you are talking about Europe because you talk about
that's the big problem but it's exactly your analysis exactly the same when you are talking about Europe because you talk about
Slavoj Žižek
but it is the same phenomenon yes
but it is the same phenomenon yes
unknown
the Europe being caught between surrendering to global capitalism or surrendering to anti-immigration policies the populists but what is the way to navigate
the Europe being caught between surrendering to global capitalism or surrendering to anti-immigration policies the populists but what is the way to navigate
Slavoj Žižek
if neither of those two options are the right one only a more radical left and let me be no no no but let me be very precise here I'm not playing some stupid Marxist cards in the sense of radical left new Communist party no I'm only thinking about some kind of reinvention of the good old welfare state with a new internationalism like today the left just opposes TTIP and all those international agreements and just wants to return to national sovereignty I think no we need different international agreements and yet there's no sign of any of that actually emerging then we are lost then you know what the future will be that we will have all of us presidents like Putin Modi in India that's the new formula fully integrated in global capitalism but nationalist-conservative
if neither of those two options are the right one only a more radical left and let me be no no no but let me be very precise here I'm not playing some stupid Marxist cards in the sense of radical left new Communist party no I'm only thinking about some kind of reinvention of the good old welfare state with a new internationalism like today the left just opposes TTIP and all those international agreements and just wants to return to national sovereignty I think no we need different international agreements and yet there's no sign of any of that actually emerging then we are lost then you know what the future will be that we will have all of us presidents like Putin Modi in India that's the new formula fully integrated in global capitalism but nationalist-conservative
unknown
at home now you talked about the way people have talked and Trump and how everything has changed when it comes to truth we saw it throughout the campaign with things that were said in the campaign we even saw it in that interview from Donald Trump yesterday where he talked about a million illegal refugees coming into Germany that's how he described it when you have truth and fact being used as it is at the moment what are your concerns about where that takes us it is horrible all
at home now you talked about the way people have talked and Trump and how everything has changed when it comes to truth we saw it throughout the campaign with things that were said in the campaign we even saw it in that interview from Donald Trump yesterday where he talked about a million illegal refugees coming into Germany that's how he described it when you have truth and fact being used as it is at the moment what are your concerns about where that takes us it is horrible all
Slavoj Žižek
this I admit it but now I will say something which again may surprise you isn't the liberal left engaged in something quite similar in its own version of so-called post-factual approach look I will say something horrible for which you will lynch me probably now but what's the favored type of political commentary now for liberal leftists Jon Stewart John Oliver and so on this kind of a half-joking very arrogant comic commentaries and so on and so on this is the ultimate failure of the left for me this patronizing making fun of the ordinary
this I admit it but now I will say something which again may surprise you isn't the liberal left engaged in something quite similar in its own version of so-called post-factual approach look I will say something horrible for which you will lynch me probably now but what's the favored type of political commentary now for liberal leftists Jon Stewart John Oliver and so on this kind of a half-joking very arrogant comic commentaries and so on and so on this is the ultimate failure of the left for me this patronizing making fun of the ordinary
unknown
people talking of making fun of ordinary people I used that quote earlier you have said before percent of people are boring idiots I mean I know which category I fall into my wife and my editor tells me that every day but which category do you think you fall into the percent or the percent
people talking of making fun of ordinary people I used that quote earlier you have said before percent of people are boring idiots I mean I know which category I fall into my wife and my editor tells me that every day but which category do you think you fall into the percent or the percent
Slavoj Žižek
no no no I am here very realistic for me percent are boring idiots for other people I may be part of those percent but you know what was my intention behind this I hate this liberal multicultural pressure no if you really try to understand another people you will see that they are not boring no why this pressure for me true multicultural tolerance is I don't understand you you don't understand me can't we nonetheless be nice and kind to each other the difficult thing is to for me to tolerate you in your difference not trying to swallow you to understand you briefest thing we've literally got no time I read an article saying that you and Trump are actually quite similar both provocative eminently quotable but stripped away and you're actually quite similar does that bring you out in a cold sweat you see this is no because this is what I am criticizing this is the left post-factualism I write a book of pages about Hegel nobody counts that
no no no I am here very realistic for me percent are boring idiots for other people I may be part of those percent but you know what was my intention behind this I hate this liberal multicultural pressure no if you really try to understand another people you will see that they are not boring no why this pressure for me true multicultural tolerance is I don't understand you you don't understand me can't we nonetheless be nice and kind to each other the difficult thing is to for me to tolerate you in your difference not trying to swallow you to understand you briefest thing we've literally got no time I read an article saying that you and Trump are actually quite similar both provocative eminently quotable but stripped away and you're actually quite similar does that bring you out in a cold sweat you see this is no because this is what I am criticizing this is the left post-factualism I write a book of pages about Hegel nobody counts that