Slavoj Zizek Talk About The Pervasiveness of Social Media In Our Lives
Interview · Chicago's Morning Answer ·
published 2019-08-07 · 0:13:54 · 2,159 words
the date above is when the video was uploaded, no recording date was found
technology-ai-cyberspaceideologyliberalism-political-correctnesscinema-art-culture
Žižek analyzes the paradox of modern digital control, arguing that we are most enslaved when we believe we are exercising freedom, using the 'boiling frog' metaphor and the film Captive State to illustrate invisible surveillance. He contrasts this with Orwell’s 1984, suggesting that contemporary totalitarianism operates through our complicity and desire for smooth everyday life, citing whistleblowers as heroes and invoking John Carpenter’s They Live to highlight the need for forced awareness of this unfreedom.
every located moment in this recording, click one to read it
The ideas in it 5
in the order they first come up; click a row for what he does with the idea here
A metaphor used by Cyril Ramaphosa and applied by Žižek to global warming and digital control, describing how gradual changes go unnoticed until it is too late.
The paradoxical state where one is most controlled precisely when fully exercising freedom (surfing, buying, flirting), rather than feeling constrained.
as “unfreedom which is not even felt as constraint”
The most dangerous form of unfreedom, experienced not as a limitation but as the exercise of one's own freedom.
George Orwell’s motto for the real freedom of the press, which Žižek invokes to argue that people prefer ignoring uncomfortable truths.
The claim that the first step toward freedom is becoming fully aware of one's slavery and asking 'what kind of a slave I am,' because part of our slavery is acting as if we are free.
Stories he reaches for 3
John Carpenter’s film where characters must wear special glasses to see the truth (aliens as consumers); Žižek calls it his favorite dystopian movie because it shows how people must be forced to accept the unfreedom in which they live.
“one of my favorite dystopian movies which is totally neglected some twenty years old i think john carpenter’s they live about how we can only see truth if we put on some right glasses”
Referenced as evidence of how we are manipulated in elections while believing we are free, highlighting the invisible agencies of control (state/private corporations).
“as we learn from cambridge analytica helping trump in the elections and so on how we are manipulated”
A movie starring John Goodman set in Chicago where aliens invade but remain invisible, with human collaborators running things; Žižek likes it because it depicts control as an alien power we are unaware of, mirroring digital surveillance.
“there was a recent movie which i mention it because you are in chicago takes place in chicago did you see the new movie with john goodman playing a dark role captive state”
Works invoked 3
They Live film
Called 'one of my favorite dystopian movies' and 'totally neglected'; used to illustrate how people must be compelled to accept the unfreedom in which they live.
1984 book
Used as a foil; Žižek argues Orwell's model of totalitarianism is 'outdated' because it does not accurately describe the current form of digital control where people choose to be enslaved.
Captive State film
Žižek likes this movie for its depiction of invisible alien control and human collaborators, using it to illustrate how digital control feels like an alien power we are unaware of.
People invoked 7
John Carpenter positive
Cited as the director of They Live, which Žižek praises as a neglected favorite for depicting the need for forced awareness of reality.
Cyril Ramaphosa positive
Cited as the source of the 'boiling frog' metaphor, which Žižek creatively applies to his own analysis of climate and digital control.
Edward Snowden positive
Identified explicitly as one of Žižek's 'heroes' for exposing state secrets.
John Goodman positive
Mentioned as the actor in Captive State, whose role helps illustrate the concept of invisible alien control.
Chelsea Manning positive
Identified explicitly as one of Žižek's 'heroes' for exposing state secrets.
George Orwell mixed
Žižek quotes Orwell’s motto on press freedom positively but argues Orwell’s specific model of totalitarianism in 1984 is 'outdated' for describing current digital control.
Julian Assange positive
Identified explicitly as one of Žižek's 'heroes' for exposing state secrets.
Transcript 30 turns
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this is chicago’s morning answer with dan proft and amy jacobson on am the answer
this is chicago’s morning answer with dan proft and amy jacobson on am the answer
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top of the morning dan and in for amy this morning chicago tribune board editorialist kristen mcqueary and eric schmidt you know eric schmidt he’s the dork who used to be the ceo of google then he was leveled up to alphabet the parent company you could have stopped at dork okay he’s also according to page six the hottest bachelor in new york oh except that he’s married
top of the morning dan and in for amy this morning chicago tribune board editorialist kristen mcqueary and eric schmidt you know eric schmidt he’s the dork who used to be the ceo of google then he was leveled up to alphabet the parent company you could have stopped at dork okay he’s also according to page six the hottest bachelor in new york oh except that he’s married
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oh whoops
oh whoops
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sixty-four-year-old eric schmidt has been linked to high-profile ladies including designer shoshana gruss socialite ulla parker and kate bohner former cnbc correspondent hmm i think there are a lot of women who date him who think they’re going to be the next mrs schmidt said one of his exes but he dates a lot of women he likes to have a ship in every port he has no plans to divorce his wife of thirty-nine years wendy is her name even though he presented i guess his latest girlfriend alexandra duisberg with a ten-carat pink sapphire ring in greenland recently
sixty-four-year-old eric schmidt has been linked to high-profile ladies including designer shoshana gruss socialite ulla parker and kate bohner former cnbc correspondent hmm i think there are a lot of women who date him who think they’re going to be the next mrs schmidt said one of his exes but he dates a lot of women he likes to have a ship in every port he has no plans to divorce his wife of thirty-nine years wendy is her name even though he presented i guess his latest girlfriend alexandra duisberg with a ten-carat pink sapphire ring in greenland recently
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okay is this the one he wants to maybe have children with no no that’s a different one okay
okay is this the one he wants to maybe have children with no no that’s a different one okay
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she said they were going to have five kids together and they’ve frozen embryos she said they are going to have kids whether his wife he and his wife are divorced or not
she said they were going to have five kids together and they’ve frozen embryos she said they are going to have kids whether his wife he and his wife are divorced or not
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yes i’m that story i’m aware of mm-hmm
yes i’m that story i’m aware of mm-hmm
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does any of this strike you as strange so everybody’s i mean it takes a village i mean eric schmidt is taking that literally i suppose he’s putting together a village i thought this was the me too era and i thought this was particularly the me too era for liberal lions like eric schmidt and the big tech guys that are leading the way these are this is part of our vanguard class
does any of this strike you as strange so everybody’s i mean it takes a village i mean eric schmidt is taking that literally i suppose he’s putting together a village i thought this was the me too era and i thought this was particularly the me too era for liberal lions like eric schmidt and the big tech guys that are leading the way these are this is part of our vanguard class
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or i mean does page six sort of glorify him too i would think that
or i mean does page six sort of glorify him too i would think that
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the hottest bachelor in new york city
the hottest bachelor in new york city
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right i would think he would be the subject of scorn from a liberal-leaning publication but you know we get surprised every day
right i would think he would be the subject of scorn from a liberal-leaning publication but you know we get surprised every day
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and then they just go on i mean there this is written unironically right without comment much less judgment heavens to betsy duisberg at thirty-two is the youngest of his girlfriends so far one associate of eric schmidt said you can’t be a professional business person and community member and father and also be this sort of playboy which is an odd term to apply to eric schmidt who again is a massive dork and not particularly bright outside of his space as we learned one time on his trip to chicago where he was squired around by tiny dancer to visit schools in the city all of a sudden he became famous and powerful wealthy and it’s like wait i can date people half my age people in silicon valley in general this associate of schmidt’s continued they used to hold themselves to a higher standard than wall street but that’s no longer true eric’s a reflection of that change oh so it’s wolf of wall street redux in silicon valley maybe we shouldn’t cede control of our lives and maybe we should take the attitude that mike judge takes the creator of the series silicon valley which is a hilarious and everything i understand fairly accurate parody of sorts parody slash documentary of silicon valley where we’re just here to make the world a better place the line uttered by these big tech ceos is treated as a punchline in that series we’re just here to be the next generation of wealthy sentimental barbarians seems to be more accurate and eric schmidt seems to be a case study in this but i just find the reporting on this remarkable mm-hmm don’t you yeah i mean i wasn’t aware
and then they just go on i mean there this is written unironically right without comment much less judgment heavens to betsy duisberg at thirty-two is the youngest of his girlfriends so far one associate of eric schmidt said you can’t be a professional business person and community member and father and also be this sort of playboy which is an odd term to apply to eric schmidt who again is a massive dork and not particularly bright outside of his space as we learned one time on his trip to chicago where he was squired around by tiny dancer to visit schools in the city all of a sudden he became famous and powerful wealthy and it’s like wait i can date people half my age people in silicon valley in general this associate of schmidt’s continued they used to hold themselves to a higher standard than wall street but that’s no longer true eric’s a reflection of that change oh so it’s wolf of wall street redux in silicon valley maybe we shouldn’t cede control of our lives and maybe we should take the attitude that mike judge takes the creator of the series silicon valley which is a hilarious and everything i understand fairly accurate parody of sorts parody slash documentary of silicon valley where we’re just here to make the world a better place the line uttered by these big tech ceos is treated as a punchline in that series we’re just here to be the next generation of wealthy sentimental barbarians seems to be more accurate and eric schmidt seems to be a case study in this but i just find the reporting on this remarkable mm-hmm don’t you yeah i mean i wasn’t aware
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that it was being
that it was being
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covered outside of well i i suppose page six is just as much people magazine as anything else but yes in this era to have someone who is he’s still married yeah celebrated as a bachelor
covered outside of well i i suppose page six is just as much people magazine as anything else but yes in this era to have someone who is he’s still married yeah celebrated as a bachelor
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and by the way anybody want to call wendy his wife of thirty-nine years see what she has to say about the topic yeah bizarre and these are our betters right
and by the way anybody want to call wendy his wife of thirty-nine years see what she has to say about the topic yeah bizarre and these are our betters right
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well if you’re in i mean page six come on that is premiere status right there
well if you’re in i mean page six come on that is premiere status right there
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for more on the topic of big tech and less the personal sense of some of its leading men and more in the sense of are we entering the age where westworld becomes a documentary we’re pleased to be joined again by our friend slavoj žižek he is a professor at the institute for sociology and philosophy at the university of ljubljana melania trump’s home country and international director of the birkbeck institute for the humanities at the university of london professor thanks so much for joining us again appreciate it
for more on the topic of big tech and less the personal sense of some of its leading men and more in the sense of are we entering the age where westworld becomes a documentary we’re pleased to be joined again by our friend slavoj žižek he is a professor at the institute for sociology and philosophy at the university of ljubljana melania trump’s home country and international director of the birkbeck institute for the humanities at the university of london professor thanks so much for joining us again appreciate it
Slavoj Žižek
glad to be here again thanks
glad to be here again thanks
unknown
i wanted and by the way i should mention last time we had you on the show we talked about in part your debate with jordan peterson which was a celebrated event we had a great conversation about that but i was interested in this piece that you wrote recently in the spectator for spectator.us how to boil a frog and specifically the commentary on the digital police state you suggest here that we’re entering an era of the digital police state and if you could elaborate on that i’d appreciate it
i wanted and by the way i should mention last time we had you on the show we talked about in part your debate with jordan peterson which was a celebrated event we had a great conversation about that but i was interested in this piece that you wrote recently in the spectator for spectator.us how to boil a frog and specifically the commentary on the digital police state you suggest here that we’re entering an era of the digital police state and if you could elaborate on that i’d appreciate it
Slavoj Žižek
it’s very simple first why the metaphor boil the frog cyril ramaphosa the president of south africa once used this metaphor in how the black majority should treat the whites like when you are boiling a frog you just gradually raise the temperature so the the frog doesn’t even notice that it’s getting warmer and warmer and my idea is that isn’t this exactly what is happening with global warming and with digital control things are mostly out of our sight gradually developing there are many contradictory movements like part of the global warming is that things are there is even the things are even getting more cold in some parts of the world but in all this it’s as if we are the frog and we are boiling ourselves as for the digital control i think the big paradox that obsesses me is that we know we are more and more controlled whatever products you buy i was told now that even if you buy sneakers not to mention tv set they all have implants and they report to the company everything you do with the product but what interests me is that in the old police state you felt threatened that you were controlled and so on that your freedom is constrained but the miracle of this new control is that you are the most controlled precisely when you simply fully exercise your freedom what can be more free than just surfing the web buying things watching movies flirting dating and so on and so on and in this free activity you are most totally controlled and of course the agencies of this control they are a mess connection of state agencies private corporations and so on and so on and they are all more or less invisible you know which movie i like at this level there was a recent movie which i mention it because you are in chicago takes place in chicago did you see the new movie with john goodman playing a dark role captive state something like this it’s a movie which takes place in near future and it takes place in poor suburbs of chicago and the whole earth is invaded by aliens but we don’t see them they just exploit us their collaborators of the aliens run things keep us in control and so on and so on and i like this idea that this digital space where we are controlled doesn’t directly impinge on our freedom we effectively experience it as some kind of an alien power it’s not part of our world we are not even aware of it and so on somehow you can go on in your daily life things are just as usual you don’t feel controlled but as we learn from cambridge analytica helping trump in the elections and so on how we are manipulated but again the big news today for me is that the most dangerous power or unfreedom is unfreedom which is not even felt as constraint as unfreedom but which is experienced as precisely your exercise of freedom
it’s very simple first why the metaphor boil the frog cyril ramaphosa the president of south africa once used this metaphor in how the black majority should treat the whites like when you are boiling a frog you just gradually raise the temperature so the the frog doesn’t even notice that it’s getting warmer and warmer and my idea is that isn’t this exactly what is happening with global warming and with digital control things are mostly out of our sight gradually developing there are many contradictory movements like part of the global warming is that things are there is even the things are even getting more cold in some parts of the world but in all this it’s as if we are the frog and we are boiling ourselves as for the digital control i think the big paradox that obsesses me is that we know we are more and more controlled whatever products you buy i was told now that even if you buy sneakers not to mention tv set they all have implants and they report to the company everything you do with the product but what interests me is that in the old police state you felt threatened that you were controlled and so on that your freedom is constrained but the miracle of this new control is that you are the most controlled precisely when you simply fully exercise your freedom what can be more free than just surfing the web buying things watching movies flirting dating and so on and so on and in this free activity you are most totally controlled and of course the agencies of this control they are a mess connection of state agencies private corporations and so on and so on and they are all more or less invisible you know which movie i like at this level there was a recent movie which i mention it because you are in chicago takes place in chicago did you see the new movie with john goodman playing a dark role captive state something like this it’s a movie which takes place in near future and it takes place in poor suburbs of chicago and the whole earth is invaded by aliens but we don’t see them they just exploit us their collaborators of the aliens run things keep us in control and so on and so on and i like this idea that this digital space where we are controlled doesn’t directly impinge on our freedom we effectively experience it as some kind of an alien power it’s not part of our world we are not even aware of it and so on somehow you can go on in your daily life things are just as usual you don’t feel controlled but as we learn from cambridge analytica helping trump in the elections and so on how we are manipulated but again the big news today for me is that the most dangerous power or unfreedom is unfreedom which is not even felt as constraint as unfreedom but which is experienced as precisely your exercise of freedom
unknown
yeah that’s it’s so true i was just in everyday life i was looking at something online i think it was a hair product i didn’t even buy it i immediately went to instagram which is of course owned by facebook and up pops an ad for it i mean and if you’re not paying attention you might not even notice that there’s been this huge crossover between what you were looking on one website and how it’s immediately put in front of you so i guess my question is what do we do about it i mean it’s it’s become such a part of our lives to to online shop and to share all that information do you think that we need to move back to more a cash society
yeah that’s it’s so true i was just in everyday life i was looking at something online i think it was a hair product i didn’t even buy it i immediately went to instagram which is of course owned by facebook and up pops an ad for it i mean and if you’re not paying attention you might not even notice that there’s been this huge crossover between what you were looking on one website and how it’s immediately put in front of you so i guess my question is what do we do about it i mean it’s it’s become such a part of our lives to to online shop and to share all that information do you think that we need to move back to more a cash society
Slavoj Žižek
or what do we do no no no no there is no way back i don’t first i don’t trust this propaganda you are right what you said this anti-chinese propaganda of course the chinese are doing this openly it’s horrible but when we usually the news about this are about china how every citizen there has some kind of patriotic score and so on and so on but you know this focus on china just blurs how bad things are already here and i think that the most we can do at this moment is and they are my heroes what people like chelsea manning julian assange snowden and so on were doing people we should bombard people with the news about this people should be aware and this is an how do you call it uphill battle because you know where i’m a pessimist people don’t really want to know all this as long as things run smoothly at the everyday level people prefer to ignore this they claim so okay there is a there is a chip in my sneakers what do i care and so on and so forth here more than ever george orwell’s old motto is important george orwell wrote somewhere that the real freedom of the press is the freedom to tell people what they don’t want to hear people don’t want really to know this you know we have paradoxically false freedom to confront reality one of my favorite dystopian movies which is totally neglected some twenty years old i think john carpenter’s they live about how we can only see truth if we put on some right glasses and it depicts nicely this situation how people have to be in some sense compelled forced to accept the unfreedom in which they live well since you brought up orwell is his parody of the totalitarian state in which freedom is slavery nineteen-eighty-four is is that is that something that people are choosing now they’re choosing to be enslaved as you suggest in this digital space yeah but not in the way orwell portrays it orwell is way at this level too outdated his model of totalitarian regime
or what do we do no no no no there is no way back i don’t first i don’t trust this propaganda you are right what you said this anti-chinese propaganda of course the chinese are doing this openly it’s horrible but when we usually the news about this are about china how every citizen there has some kind of patriotic score and so on and so on but you know this focus on china just blurs how bad things are already here and i think that the most we can do at this moment is and they are my heroes what people like chelsea manning julian assange snowden and so on were doing people we should bombard people with the news about this people should be aware and this is an how do you call it uphill battle because you know where i’m a pessimist people don’t really want to know all this as long as things run smoothly at the everyday level people prefer to ignore this they claim so okay there is a there is a chip in my sneakers what do i care and so on and so forth here more than ever george orwell’s old motto is important george orwell wrote somewhere that the real freedom of the press is the freedom to tell people what they don’t want to hear people don’t want really to know this you know we have paradoxically false freedom to confront reality one of my favorite dystopian movies which is totally neglected some twenty years old i think john carpenter’s they live about how we can only see truth if we put on some right glasses and it depicts nicely this situation how people have to be in some sense compelled forced to accept the unfreedom in which they live well since you brought up orwell is his parody of the totalitarian state in which freedom is slavery nineteen-eighty-four is is that is that something that people are choosing now they’re choosing to be enslaved as you suggest in this digital space yeah but not in the way orwell portrays it orwell is way at this level too outdated his model of totalitarian regime
unknown
was still the old stalinism where you are controlled you are
was still the old stalinism where you are controlled you are
Slavoj Žižek
aware yeah no i understand that’s what i’m saying
aware yeah no i understand that’s what i’m saying
unknown
so what i’m saying now is freedom that freedom is slavery was a parody of the old totalitarian state in nineteen-eighty-four what i’m suggesting is it’s not a parody anymore freedom is slavery is real because people are choosing it
so what i’m saying now is freedom that freedom is slavery was a parody of the old totalitarian state in nineteen-eighty-four what i’m suggesting is it’s not a parody anymore freedom is slavery is real because people are choosing it
Slavoj Žižek
yes and paradoxically that’s why paradoxically i claim crazy at this may sound the first step towards freedom is not just to directly demand freedom but to become fully aware of your slavery like you know the paradoxical to say i am a slave please just tell me what kind of a slave i am and so on and so on and so on because part of our slavery is that we have to act as if we are free
yes and paradoxically that’s why paradoxically i claim crazy at this may sound the first step towards freedom is not just to directly demand freedom but to become fully aware of your slavery like you know the paradoxical to say i am a slave please just tell me what kind of a slave i am and so on and so on and so on because part of our slavery is that we have to act as if we are free
unknown
it’s a great piece i’m going to tweet it out and this is going to prompt a longer conversation but professor slavoj žižek professor at the institute of sociology and philosophy at the university of ljubljana slovenia and the international director of the birkbeck institute for the humanities
it’s a great piece i’m going to tweet it out and this is going to prompt a longer conversation but professor slavoj žižek professor at the institute of sociology and philosophy at the university of ljubljana slovenia and the international director of the birkbeck institute for the humanities