Žižek on Climate Change, Noam Chomsky, and Bernie Sanders
Interview · Bad Faith ·
published 2020-12-19 · 0:08:31 · 1,367 words
the date above is when the video was uploaded, no recording date was found
ecology-climatecapitalismideologydemocracyrevolution-violence
Žižek argues that addressing climate change and other crises requires systemic transformation rather than mere political resets like electing Biden, warning that failing to address the root causes risks a return of Trump. He critiques the liberal focus on defeating Trump while ignoring the structural conditions that produced him, emphasizing the need for global coordination over a corrupted world government. He concludes by validating the left's recent political struggles, particularly Bernie Sanders, as essential steps in making socialism publicly acceptable.
every located moment in this recording, click one to read it
The ideas in it 4
in the order they first come up; click a row for what he does with the idea here
The implicit logic of centrist Democrats who preferred the known threat of Trump over the systemic challenge posed by Sanders, revealing the limits of liberal politics.
as “liberal fascination”
The tendency of liberals to focus exclusively on defeating the immediate enemy (Trump) while ignoring the deeper systemic causes that allow such figures to emerge.
A proposed mechanism for managing global crises like climate change and migration, distinguished from a 'world government' which Žižek views as inevitably corrupt.
The idea that political movements like Occupy Wall Street and Bernie Sanders are not failures but necessary stages in a long-term political education.
Stories he reaches for 1
Žižek defends Occupy Wall Street and Bernie Sanders against critics who saw them as failures, arguing they were crucial parts of a long learning process that made 'socialism' a publicly acceptable term.
“I remember Occupy Wall Street and then people said you see it disappeared it was nothing no it was part of a long learning process”
People invoked 5
Cited for the phrase 'be tough on the causes of crime,' which Žižek calls 'stupid' and 'manipulative' because it resulted in more prisons, though he repurposes the phrase.
Donald Trump negative
Described as 'the devil' and a threat; Žižek argues against simply fighting Trump without addressing the causes that brought him to power.
Bernie Sanders positive
Žižek argues Sanders deserves a monument as big as Lincoln's for making 'socialism' publicly acceptable, viewing his campaign as a crucial threat to centrist Democrats.
Joe Biden negative
Žižek views Biden's presidency not as a solution but as a signal to 'really fight,' criticizing the liberal satisfaction with his election as insufficient.
Noam Chomsky positive
Žižek states he has 'great respect' for Chomsky despite Chomsky's brutal attacks on him, noting that Chomsky shares his view on the current political situation.
Transcript 11 turns
unknown
This is the interesting contrast between your book and Chomsky's latest book which is about climate change and which essentially says don't panic uh we can take care of this if if we spend something like trillion dollars over the next years you know like this will go away we'll solve the problem and then we can go back to struggle then we can go back to to fighting you know for uh fighting for communism and your book says what we need is to fight now that's my only difference right no the
This is the interesting contrast between your book and Chomsky's latest book which is about climate change and which essentially says don't panic uh we can take care of this if if we spend something like trillion dollars over the next years you know like this will go away we'll solve the problem and then we can go back to struggle then we can go back to to fighting you know for uh fighting for communism and your book says what we need is to fight now that's my only difference right no the
Slavoj Žižek
only way to really prevent global warming catastrophe is to change the system now you see I don't accept this logic of now we are dealing with a real problem COVID pandemic or global warming or whatever and let's forget about higher no things are happening now this reset capitalism and so on Trump they are all already answers from the other side to this and also but you know what's not clear with me I have although he attacked me brutally many times I have a great respect for nonetheless for Chomsky as do we same yeah it's not clear for me again as both of you I think already said today so what does it amount to what would he have done today it's too easy to say okay now the worst is over we have Biden but what to do now to prevent a new Trump coming or I mean you know I think that Biden for me only means now it's the time to really fight we should avoid this typically liberal fascination of you have the devil there Trump you know and let's just fight that no if I may use that stupid phrase I think coined by Clinton which was quite manipulative be tough on the crime but be tough also on the causes of crime it meant more prison but my point would be yes be tough on Trump but we also be also tough on the causes of Trump what brought Trump in
only way to really prevent global warming catastrophe is to change the system now you see I don't accept this logic of now we are dealing with a real problem COVID pandemic or global warming or whatever and let's forget about higher no things are happening now this reset capitalism and so on Trump they are all already answers from the other side to this and also but you know what's not clear with me I have although he attacked me brutally many times I have a great respect for nonetheless for Chomsky as do we same yeah it's not clear for me again as both of you I think already said today so what does it amount to what would he have done today it's too easy to say okay now the worst is over we have Biden but what to do now to prevent a new Trump coming or I mean you know I think that Biden for me only means now it's the time to really fight we should avoid this typically liberal fascination of you have the devil there Trump you know and let's just fight that no if I may use that stupid phrase I think coined by Clinton which was quite manipulative be tough on the crime but be tough also on the causes of crime it meant more prison but my point would be yes be tough on Trump but we also be also tough on the causes of Trump what brought Trump in
unknown
yeah I think that's that's so important to say because there is an aspect of it and it's not the most important thing but it does feel like you're getting gaslit often um that you're being especially in the lead up to the election there was such an intolerance for any acknowledgement of the way um the compromises we've made enabled Trump created Trump
yeah I think that's that's so important to say because there is an aspect of it and it's not the most important thing but it does feel like you're getting gaslit often um that you're being especially in the lead up to the election there was such an intolerance for any acknowledgement of the way um the compromises we've made enabled Trump created Trump
Slavoj Žižek
yeah that's the crucial question for me yeah
yeah that's the crucial question for me yeah
unknown
yeah and and people liked to say well of course it's not enough to get rid of Trump we also have to do a lot to fix the country but they would say that as a platitude and there would never be a substantive conversation about what it looked like to fix the country and there was never and to this day there continues not to be a really substantive conversation about what it looks like to push Biden left are we talking about a general strike what are labor leaders up to right now in this moment if AOC were to take this stand and hold up the the Pelosi vote in order to extract concessions would she have the support of major activist groups who could lead protests in the streets lead protests in front of um congresspeople's offices or homes that don't vote you know that don't support Medicare for All or these other kinds of programs that people desperately need right now in this crisis you know that those conversations we're trying to have them on this podcast and I don't mean to pretend to know what's going on in every you know labor meeting in America but it is frustrating that okay Donald Trump eh sorry Donald Trump has been defeated Biden's eh election has been secure for weeks where are these conversations where is everybody who said they were going to be protesting day one and it starts to be obvious seem obvious that those were platitudes intended to make us eat our garlic yeah yeah yeah with no intention that there's a blood a yummy blood meal coming our way that's exactly it please sorry guys we've eaten enough of garlic
yeah and and people liked to say well of course it's not enough to get rid of Trump we also have to do a lot to fix the country but they would say that as a platitude and there would never be a substantive conversation about what it looked like to fix the country and there was never and to this day there continues not to be a really substantive conversation about what it looks like to push Biden left are we talking about a general strike what are labor leaders up to right now in this moment if AOC were to take this stand and hold up the the Pelosi vote in order to extract concessions would she have the support of major activist groups who could lead protests in the streets lead protests in front of um congresspeople's offices or homes that don't vote you know that don't support Medicare for All or these other kinds of programs that people desperately need right now in this crisis you know that those conversations we're trying to have them on this podcast and I don't mean to pretend to know what's going on in every you know labor meeting in America but it is frustrating that okay Donald Trump eh sorry Donald Trump has been defeated Biden's eh election has been secure for weeks where are these conversations where is everybody who said they were going to be protesting day one and it starts to be obvious seem obvious that those were platitudes intended to make us eat our garlic yeah yeah yeah with no intention that there's a blood a yummy blood meal coming our way that's exactly it please sorry guys we've eaten enough of garlic
unknown
now it's time to
now it's time to
Slavoj Žižek
because I really think but again I'm not saying because of some leftist pride or whatever radicality but my god are people not aware in what world we live how many catastrophes are looming and so on and the only solution I see is in some kind of this basic things uh global healthcare we need some global agencies not world government it would a world government would get im immediately mega corrupted I think but some kind of global coordination and so on for example if some parts are turning into desert now desertification if other parts like northern Siberia is getting warmer ready for agriculture then it's clear that there will be large movements of maybe even hundreds millions of people how to organize this without new wars and so on and so on we have to this is why I think it's not enough this self-satisfaction okay now we have Biden and so on no we just avoided one catastrophe but nothing is really resolved I think because also as you I think said already before it was clear when Sanders at the beginning of campaign posed a real Bernie posed a real threat to whoever it was there it wasn't even at that point yet eh Biden that the signal between the lines of many centrist Democrats was ultimately better Trump than than Bernie you know
because I really think but again I'm not saying because of some leftist pride or whatever radicality but my god are people not aware in what world we live how many catastrophes are looming and so on and the only solution I see is in some kind of this basic things uh global healthcare we need some global agencies not world government it would a world government would get im immediately mega corrupted I think but some kind of global coordination and so on for example if some parts are turning into desert now desertification if other parts like northern Siberia is getting warmer ready for agriculture then it's clear that there will be large movements of maybe even hundreds millions of people how to organize this without new wars and so on and so on we have to this is why I think it's not enough this self-satisfaction okay now we have Biden and so on no we just avoided one catastrophe but nothing is really resolved I think because also as you I think said already before it was clear when Sanders at the beginning of campaign posed a real Bernie posed a real threat to whoever it was there it wasn't even at that point yet eh Biden that the signal between the lines of many centrist Democrats was ultimately better Trump than than Bernie you know
unknown
absolutely and Bloomberg even was first offered as a stand-in and honestly it is very difficult to argue that Bloomberg is better than Trump I mean it you can make the argument either way but they're so Bloomberg is such an evil terrible man that the idea that all of these these liberals who pretended to care about social justice issues pretended to care about the rights of marginalized groups Bloomberg led a war on Black and brown young people in New York the likes of which is rarely matched across this country in terms of the stop and frisk and infringement on people's rights um mass policing it was disgusting and you saw how quickly this is what when I I wrote an article about litmus test in this question of should we hold Biden to any kind of standard the Democrats to any kind of standard and Bloomberg was kind of one of my crucial uh talking points you know if you're willing to support Bloomberg that obviously means that what you care about with Trump what the problem you have with Trump is largely aesthetic and not principled yeah that's a
absolutely and Bloomberg even was first offered as a stand-in and honestly it is very difficult to argue that Bloomberg is better than Trump I mean it you can make the argument either way but they're so Bloomberg is such an evil terrible man that the idea that all of these these liberals who pretended to care about social justice issues pretended to care about the rights of marginalized groups Bloomberg led a war on Black and brown young people in New York the likes of which is rarely matched across this country in terms of the stop and frisk and infringement on people's rights um mass policing it was disgusting and you saw how quickly this is what when I I wrote an article about litmus test in this question of should we hold Biden to any kind of standard the Democrats to any kind of standard and Bloomberg was kind of one of my crucial uh talking points you know if you're willing to support Bloomberg that obviously means that what you care about with Trump what the problem you have with Trump is largely aesthetic and not principled yeah that's a
Slavoj Žižek
precise notion yeah yeah yeah
precise notion yeah yeah yeah
unknown
and and what does it mean for the Democratic party if it's willing to admit that it only is an aesthetic party that cares about a more diverse and more polite version of the exact same thing in that case you can't tell me that Vote Blue No Matter Who makes any sense because you're it's not the lesser of two evils at that point it's just a whole pot of evils and you're picking them out like a bingo game
and and what does it mean for the Democratic party if it's willing to admit that it only is an aesthetic party that cares about a more diverse and more polite version of the exact same thing in that case you can't tell me that Vote Blue No Matter Who makes any sense because you're it's not the lesser of two evils at that point it's just a whole pot of evils and you're picking them out like a bingo game
Slavoj Žižek
you cannot even imagine how much I agree with you yes these are crucial things today again uh the left has to take some risks today otherwise it will it will just be forced in the not so far future a couple of years to begin from the zero point you know because things are gradually accumulating now I remember Occupy Wall Street and then people said you see it disappeared it was nothing no it was part of a long learning process Occupy Wall Street then Bernie Sanders and so on and even if Bernie lost now something you know in the politics terms are important already for this he deserves a monument as big as Lincoln's in Washington this Bernie that he made rendered the term socialism publicly acceptable you cannot even imagine how till a couple of years ago this was simply a non-acceptable term
you cannot even imagine how much I agree with you yes these are crucial things today again uh the left has to take some risks today otherwise it will it will just be forced in the not so far future a couple of years to begin from the zero point you know because things are gradually accumulating now I remember Occupy Wall Street and then people said you see it disappeared it was nothing no it was part of a long learning process Occupy Wall Street then Bernie Sanders and so on and even if Bernie lost now something you know in the politics terms are important already for this he deserves a monument as big as Lincoln's in Washington this Bernie that he made rendered the term socialism publicly acceptable you cannot even imagine how till a couple of years ago this was simply a non-acceptable term