Down with ideology? Talk with Slavoj Žižek | Sternstunde Philosophie | SRF Kultur
Interview · SRF Kultur Sternstunden ·
2016-06-19 · 0:55:47 · 8,152 words
with Film Clip
ideologyhegel-dialecticscinema-art-culturesexuality-gendercapitalismecology-climatereligion-theologyliberalism-political-correctnessgeopolitics-warcommunism-socialismtechnology-ai-cyberspacephilosophy-generalrevolution-violence
A Swiss 'Sternstunde Philosophie' interview (conducted mostly in English) in which Žižek develops his theory of ideology through the sunglasses of John Carpenter's They Live, Hegel's 'determinate negation' (the coffee-without-cream joke), and everyday micro-rituals of politeness. He argues that the post-ideological era sells new forms of enslavement as new forms of freedom, that authentic passionate love is a catastrophe rather than an ideological sentimental mask, and that the egalitarian European legacy, the Cartesian zero-point subject, is the only true form of universalism, set against authoritarian capitalism and the ideology of tolerance. The talk closes with his view of Wagner's antisemitism versus his work, and his confession that he writes short political books out of civic duty while his real love is thick books on Hegel.
every located moment in this recording, click one to read it
The ideas in it 23
in the order they first come up; click a row for what he does with the idea here
as “consumerist indulgence (Ablasshandel)”
Buying fair-trade/vegan chocolate as a way to remain a consumerist with a good conscience, an ideological substitute that spares you from radical ecological action.
as “culturalization of critical energy (Kulturalisierung)”
The ideological operation of translating political conflicts (racism, etc.) into questions of tolerance and harassment, displacing the properly political level.
as “determinate negation (bestimmte Negation)”
Hegel's thesis that negation is part of what an object is, coffee 'without milk' is materially plain coffee, yet not the same as coffee 'without cream' because what it negates differs.
as “domination has to assume the form of freedom”
In our formally liberal era domination can no longer be openly asserted, the postmodern permissive boss/father gives a more radical order precisely beneath the form of free choice.
as “ideology is our natural state”
His reversal of the usual reading of They Live: ideology is not distorting glasses to be taken off, but our natural medium, to see the truth you have to put the glasses on.
The obscene enjoyment that today's ideology addresses directly ('enjoy, do it') rather than hiding beneath an official ethical message.
as “beyond the pleasure principle (Lustprinzip)”
Freud's thesis that human sexuality is not animal sexuality but a passion that goes beyond the pleasure principle, enslaving us to a metaphysical obsession, this is true love.
as “sex without love has the structure of masturbation”
Without love, partners merely use each other as masturbatory props, the plastic-vagina/penis thought-experiment literalizes this.
as “the postmodern permissive father”
The father who says 'you are free to choose, just remember how much grandma loves you', beneath free choice he issues the order not only to obey but to obey voluntarily.
The dirty obscene enjoyment with which traditional ideology bribed subjects to collaborate, hidden beneath the official ethical message of sacrifice.
The impersonal symbolic order of surveillance and control, today embodied by Apple, Microsoft, the NSA, that tracks us through the very devices sold as our freedom.
as “true love is a catastrophe”
Love is not a sentimental ideological mask over power/sex, it is the absolute metaphysical event that interrupts the stupid daily rhythm and makes you ready to sacrifice everything.
as “zero level of ideology (Grundphänomen)”
The everyday gesture meant to be rejected (the 'I should pay' ritual whose result is zero yet establishes the link of kindness), for him the ground-level phenomenon of how ideology lives.
as “eurocentrism as the only true non-eurocentric universalism”
Reversal: the egalitarian European legacy and the Cartesian zero-point is the only conceptual apparatus that can overcome Europe, you have to go through this Cartesian zero to reach true universalism.
as “authoritarian capitalism”
The capitalism of China, Singapore, Erdoğan, Putin that functions better and better without European democratic values, what is winning today.
as “X as the Cartesian void”
Malcolm X's X, no family name, no roots, read as the Cartesian zero-point: a void that is also the open space for freedom, not a handicap to be repaired by searching for roots.
as “the Cartesian subject (cogito)”
The first purely abstract, sexless, empty universal subject, the zero-point through which freedom and true universalism must pass (Malcolm X's X, transgenderism, the Haiti revolution).
as “transgenderism as the practical embodiment of the Cartesian cogito”
The transgender turn shows that biological/sexual identity is not a brute fact but a cultural turn of the abstract zero-point subject, for him today's greatest practical embodiment of the cogito.
as “absolute negativity (selbstbeendete Negativität)”
Hegel's point that there is nothing behind the mask, women, who wear masks, are thereby closer to the truth of subjectivity (the pure void) than men who believe they have a true self.
as “the undead”
The gap between 'not dead' (predicate denied = alive) and 'undead' (non-predicate asserted = monster), Kant as the theorist of zombies; the between-domain is the domain of spirit (Geist/Geister).
A Weberian-traditional morality: each of us has an inner calling to discover and follow to the death, and if we do not, our life is lost.
as “the Hegel-Lacan axis”
His self-description of the fundamental coordinate of his work for 30 years, 'not Rome-Berlin, but Hegel-Lacan', struggling with the same Grundproblem and reaching different answers.
as “fetishism”
The disavowed belief embodied in practice, he distances himself from the fetishist who demands a truly truthful film must be a boring artwork for the third world.
Stories he reaches for 10
A customer orders coffee without cream; the waiter, having no cream, offers coffee without milk. Materially both are plain coffee, yet the negation differs.
“coffee without milk is the same as coffee without cream. just plain coffee. but it's not the same.”
John Nada puts on sunglasses and sees the ideology behind products and people; Žižek reverses the reading, ideology is our natural state and the glasses reveal truth rather than distort it.
“ideology is our natural state and to see the truth you have to put on the glasses.”
Malcolm X's X means no family name, no roots, his genius was to see this void not as a handicap to be repaired by searching for African roots, but as the open space for freedom; the European name for this X is the Cartesian subject.
“X means we don't have a family name, we lack our roots... the void... is also a new open space for freedom.”
In the film Brassed Off a worker escorts a manager girl home; she invites him up 'for a coffee', he says he doesn't drink coffee, she answers 'no problem, I don't have any', the most direct erotic invitation with nothing dirty said.
“would you like to come up for a coffee... i would love to, but unfortunately i don't drink coffee... no problem, i don't have any”
When a richer and a poorer diner both know the richer will pay, the poorer still insists on paying, a gesture meant to be rejected; the result is zero yet the link of kindness is established.
“the magic of everyday ideology is that although the result was zero, nonetheless, our link was established.”
The German toilet lets you inspect the stool; the French toilet makes it disappear immediately, even at this level our daily life is impregnated with ideology, which is why it is so hard to change.
“german toilet, where you smell your seat... french toilets, the sheet disappears immediately.”
As the GDR disintegrated and Volkskammer members attacked him, Mielke made the legendary gesture and said 'aber ich liebe alle', for Žižek the ultimate statement of universal love, i.e. of ideology.
“aber ich liebe alle”
Ed Norton wants to beat his boss but his fist becomes autonomous and beats him in the back, the beginning of ideology critique: to beat the enemy you must first beat the shit out of yourself.
“to beat the enemy, you must first... beat the shit out of yourself.”
From the Flying Dutchman (designated by Wagner as 'Ahasver des Ozeans') through Wotan-as-Wanderer to Amfortas in Parsifal, Wagner's hero-type is the wandering Jew / the undead who wants to die and cannot, the antisemite's work embodies what he hates.
“wagner himself designated fliegender holländer as ahasver des ozeans.”
His T-shirt bears Melville's formula; the point is that it says 'I would prefer not to', not 'I don't prefer to do it', a non-predicate is asserted, not a predicate denied.
“it says i would prefer not to. not, i don't prefer to do it.”
Works invoked 15
Less Than Nothing book
His own favourite, over 1,000 pages on Hegel, his true love, against the short political books he writes out of civic duty.
They Live film
John Carpenter's film is his key example: the sunglasses reveal the ideology behind products; he reverses the usual reading, ideology is our natural state, the glasses show truth rather than distort it.
Brassed Off film
The coffee-invitation scene ('I don't have any'), the most direct erotic invitation with nothing dirty said; ideology functioning in everyday life.
Parsifal opera
Wagner opera; Amfortas as a figure of the wandering Jew / the undead who wants to die and cannot, he dreams of staging Parsifal one day.
Fight Club film
Ed Norton's autonomous fist beating him: to beat the enemy you must first beat the shit out of yourself, the beginning of ideology critique.
The Matrix film
The traitor who prefers the happy illusion over the painful truth, for Žižek the lesson that liberation is painful, not the arrival of happiness.
Short Cuts film
Altman's film is 'the most efficient, best ideology critique' of everyday American middle-class despair he knows.
Der fliegende Holländer opera
Wagner himself designated the Dutchman as 'Ahasver des Ozeans', the wandering-Jew type that runs through all Wagner's heroes.
Gurre-Lieder opera
Schoenberg's oratorio is the one piece of music he would take to a desert island, 'I fall for it absolutely'.
Die Weltalter book
The late Schelling's earth-shaking shift from Identitätsphilosophie, a model for how he and his circle keep the same Grundproblem while reaching different answers.
Melville's 'I would prefer not to', not the denial of a predicate but the assertion of a non-predicate; worn on his T-shirt as the formula of his negation.
The Holy Spirit names the possibility of an egalitarian community where kinship links are suspended ('hate your mother and father'), the Christian root of the European egalitarian legacy.
After Valkyrie Wotan becomes the Wanderer, the wandering-Jew / undead figure; Wagner's basic problem staged across the Ring.
Schubert's works other
Claimed by his friend Mladen Dolar against Žižek's Schumann.
Schumann's works other
The side he claims against Dolar's Schubert in their long-running friendly dispute.
People invoked 31
Mary Wollstonecraft positive
Her late-18th-century demand for women's rights shows how abstract universal human rights immediately explode into a more radical universality.
John Carpenter positive
They Live is his key example: the glasses reveal ideology rather than distort it.
Richard Wagner positive
'A total pig', antisemite as a person, yet his works' central hero-type (Flying Dutchman, Wotan, Amfortas) is the wandering Jew / the undead, the work says the opposite of the man.
His Gurre-Lieder is the one piece of music Žižek would take to a desert island.
Jacques Lacan positive
'Who was my teacher'; women as hysterics who wear masks are for Lacan more authentic, closer to the truth of subjectivity, the void, than men who believe they have a true self.
Toussaint Louverture positive
The Haiti revolution as a 'Hegelian repetition' more authentic than the French Revolution's original, slaves wanting to be more revolutionary-French than the French themselves.
Judith Butler positive
'I have a great polemics with her' on feminism and gender, but agrees with her point that the first feminist gesture is to demand men behave as masters, not feign equality; and that the Cartesian subject underpins gender performativity.
Jesus Christ positive
Reads 'hate your mother and father' as suspending kinship links for an egalitarian community of the Holy Spirit, the Christian root of European egalitarianism.
Bertolt Brecht positive
Cites his line that the truth hurts and liberation is painful, against the Matrix-traitor preference for happy illusion.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan negative
Emblematizes the new authoritarian capitalism that wins by dispensing with European democratic values.
Name-checked for the 'undead' trope (the living-dead monster).
His best friend; their running dispute is Schubert (Dolar) vs Schumann (Žižek).
Malcolm X positive
'My hero': the X means no family name, no roots, a void that is also the open space for freedom, the Cartesian zero-point in political form.
Peter Sloterdijk positive
'A guy who is not an idiot'; partially agrees on the need for a new 'culture of discretion' against the pressure to mutually penetrate and understand each other.
Roman Polanski negative
His arrest in Switzerland; 'he did a very nasty thing', refuses the 'pardon the great artist' line.
Ernst Lubitsch positive
'The genius of all geniuses' of Hollywood cinema.
Robert Altman positive
Short Cuts is 'the most efficient, best ideology critique' of everyday American middle-class despair.
Erich Mielke negative
His last Volkskammer words 'aber ich liebe alle' are for Žižek the ultimate statement of universal love, i.e. the ideology of a disintegrating regime.
Friedrich Wilhelm Joseph Schelling positive
One of his 'lieblings philosophen'; cites that women wear masks and are thereby closer to the truth of subjectivity; the shift from early Identitätsphilosophie to Weltalter is 'earth-shaking'.
Claimed by his best friend Mladen Dolar in their friendly Schubert-vs-Schumann dispute.
Claims Schumann against his friend Dolar's Schubert in their running musical dispute.
Alfred Hitchcock positive
'I still believe in Alfred Hitchcock', Hollywood classics that undermine the predominant ideology from within.
Vladimir Putin negative
Same as Erdoğan, authoritarian capitalism that functions without European democratic values.
Otto Weininger negative
Cites 'woman is a failed man' only to mock it, 'I sometimes dream it would be like that' (ironic).
Martin Luther King Jr. positive
Notes that King never mentions 'tolerance', for Žižek a sign that tolerance is an ideological displacement of real political struggle.
Karl Marx positive
Briefly self-distances: 'I'm not talking about some marxist authentic democracy but simple bourgeois democracy', implying his standard is more radical than the social-democratic one.
René Descartes positive
The Cartesian cogito is the first purely abstract, sexless subject; the zero-point through which freedom and universalism must pass (transgenderism, Malcolm X, Haiti).
Sigmund Freud positive
Located becoming human in sexuality as a passion that goes 'beyond the pleasure principle', enslaving us to a metaphysical obsession, this is precisely what true love is.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel positive
Central reference throughout: 'determinate negation' (bestimmte Negation) via the coffee joke; the Hegel-Lacan axis is the fundamental coordinate of his work for 30 years; Haiti as a 'Hegelian repetition'.
Immanuel Kant positive
Calls him 'the greatest theorist of zombies' for distinguishing 'you are not dead' (predicate denied = alive) from 'you are undead' (non-predicate asserted = monster), opening the domain of spirit.
Max Weber positive
Draws on the inner Beruf / calling: follow it to the end or your life is lost, a 'traditional morality' that sounds almost Protestant-theological.
What it argues
Ideology as our natural medium — the glasses reveal rather than distortDeterminate negation: what is negated defines what the thing isLove as catastrophe vs. universal love as ideologyPost-ideological enslavement sold to us as new freedomEurocentrism (Cartesian zero-point) as the only true non-eurocentric universalismTolerance and multiculturalism as ideological displacement of conflictThe artist's work versus the artist's person (Wagner)
Dialectical moves 16
“It's not that a predicate is denied, it is that a non-predicate is asserted.”
On Bartleby's 'I would prefer not to', the logic of a negation that does not simply cancel a predicate but asserts a void, opening the space of the undead/spirit.
“You are not dead means you are alive; you are undead means something different — the gap between the two is the domain of spirit.”
Kant as the theorist of zombies: the difference between denying a predicate and asserting a non-predicate opens the spectral domain of Geist/Geister.
“Materially coffee without milk is the same as coffee without cream — but it's not the same.”
Hegel's determinate negation: the negation is part of what the object is; what is absent matters even when the material result is identical.
“Ideology is our natural state and to see the truth you have to put on the glasses.”
Reversal of the common-sense view of ideology as distorting glasses: ideology is the medium, and the glasses reveal it rather than produce it.
“The crucial point is what you don't have to do when you do this.”
Hegel's determinate negation applied to consumerist ecology: the function of the easy gesture is precisely to exempt you from the radical act.
“To beat the enemy, you must first beat the shit out of yourself.”
Fight Club's self-beating is the beginning of ideology critique: the enemy in oneself must be engaged before the external enemy can be fought.
“True love is a catastrophe.”
Love is not the harmonious ideological mask but the metaphysical event that ruins the everyday rhythm and enslaves the subject to an obsession beyond the pleasure principle.
“Beneath the form of free choice the permissive father gives a much more radical order: the message is not only you have to go, but you have to go voluntarily.”
The inversion of paternal authority: permissiveness is more coercive than open authoritarianism because it commands the very form of the subject's assent.
“Domination has to assume the form of freedom; domination can no longer be openly, directly asserted.”
In a formally liberal era power can only operate by enlisting the subject's free choice, the first feminist gesture is to demand the man behave as a master, not feign equality.
“Real freedom is something very painful — it hurts.”
Against freedom-of-choice consumerism: a truly free choice is experienced as a first, unavoidable, almost compelled choice (joining the resistance).
“Eurocentrism is the only possible form of true non-eurocentric universalism — you have to go through this Cartesian zero.”
Reversal: the European legacy is the only apparatus that can overcome Europe; the abstract Cartesian subject is the void through which any genuine emancipation must pass.
“The Haiti revolution was a Hegelian repetition — more authentic than the original of the French Revolution.”
Black slaves wanting to be more revolutionary-French than the French themselves: the repetition is more authentic than the original, the universalization truer than the origin.
“Transgenderism is the greatest practical embodiment of the Cartesian cogito.”
The inversion of the 'biological destiny' argument: the transgender turn demonstrates the abstract zero-point subject that can turn culturally this way or that.
“There is nothing behind the mask — women as this pure void are closer to the truth of subjectivity than men who think they have a true self.”
The reversal of the depth/femininity commonplace: the masked woman is more authentic because subjectivity is itself the void, not a hidden true self.
“You can be a pig as a person but an authentic artist whose work says a different thing.”
Wagner's antisemitism versus his work whose central hero is the wandering Jew: the work's truth is the opposite of the author's persona.
“Hegel-Lacan, not Rome-Berlin — we discovered this axis and are still there.”
His self-location: the fundamental coordinates of his work are set, and the changes happen by struggling with the same Grundproblem and reaching different answers.
Claims 26
asserts
In today's situation it is more important to ask the right question than to provide answers.ideology / method
asserts
Ideology is our natural state, and to see the truth one must put the glasses on rather than take them off — the reverse of the usual assumption.ideology (They Live reversal)
asserts
Traditional ideology hid the obscene surplus enjoyment beneath an official ethical message, whereas today's ideology directly commands you to enjoy.ideology / surplus enjoyment
asserts
Consumerist 'easy' ecological gestures (fair-trade, recycling) function to spare you from radical systemic action — that is their real ideological operation.ecology / ideology
asserts
There is no ecological balance or zero level to return to; the earth is already so accommodated to our pollution that stopping too fast would itself unbalance it.ecology
rejects
Hollywood is not pure ideology; its best products (Hitchcock, Lubitsch, Altman) undermine the predominant ideology from within.cinema / ideology
asserts
Authentic passionate love is a catastrophe, not an ideological sentimental mask; universal love is itself ideology (Erich Mielke's 'aber ich liebe alle').love / universal love
asserts
Sex without love has the structure of masturbation — without love we merely use each other as masturbatory props.sexuality / love
asserts
In the post-ideological era new forms of enslavement and subordination are sold to us as new forms of freedom (precarious work as self-reinvention, individualized healthcare as small-capitalist choice).capitalism / freedom
asserts
The postmodern permissive father gives a more radical order than the authoritarian father: not only must you obey, you must obey voluntarily.authority / freedom
asserts
Domination today must assume the form of freedom; it can no longer be openly, directly asserted (the modern boss, male-female relations).domination / freedom
asserts
Real freedom is not superficial freedom of choice (cake flavours); it is a choice experienced as a first, painful, unavoidable choice that hurts.freedom
asserts
Tolerance is an ideological culturalization of critical energy; there are real enemies and some conflicts admit no tolerance.tolerance / multiculturalism
asserts
The ideal multicultural society politely ignores each other (respectful coexistence) rather than pressuring mutual understanding.multiculturalism
reframes
The migrant/refugee problem must be discussed openly with explicit rules; silence out of fear of serving racists itself serves the right.migration / ideology
asserts
Eurocentrism — the egalitarian European legacy and the Cartesian subject — is the only possible form of true non-eurocentric universalism.eurocentrism / universalism
asserts
Authoritarian capitalism (China, Singapore, Erdoğan, Putin) is winning today by dispensing with European democratic values.capitalism / geopolitics
asserts
The historical marriage of capitalism and democracy is dissolving; even formal bourgeois democracy is becoming less operative and less relevant.capitalism / democracy
asserts
Human rights appear neutral but are secretly Eurocentric — which is precisely why they immediately explode into a more radical universality (Wollstonecraft, the blacks of Haiti).human rights
asserts
Transgenderism is the greatest practical embodiment of the Cartesian cogito: biological identity is not a brute fact but a cultural turn of the abstract zero-point subject.gender / subjectivity
asserts
There is no true self behind the mask; women, who wear masks, are closer to the truth of subjectivity (the void) than men who believe they have a true self.subjectivity
asserts
Wagner was an antisemite as a person, but his work's central hero-type is the wandering Jew / the undead who wants to die and cannot.Wagner / art
asserts
Each person has an inner calling (Beruf) that must be followed to the end, and if one does not succeed in this, one's life is lost.ethics / calling
asserts
He writes short political books out of civic duty, but his true love is thick books on Hegel such as Less Than Nothing.his own work
asserts
His fundamental coordinates (the Hegel-Lacan axis) have remained the same for 30 years, while he struggles with the same Grundproblem and reaches different answers.his philosophy
asserts
Happiness is not his aim — happiness is for idiots; what he finds is deeply satisfying work, not happiness.ethics / happiness
Quotes 20
“it says i would prefer not to. not, i don't prefer to do it. so it's not that... predicate is denied, it is that a non-predicate is asserted.”Slavoj Žižek · Bartleby / negation
“if i tell you not you are not dead, but you are undead. this means something different. living dead, monster and so on.”Slavoj Žižek · the undead / Kant
“ideology is our natural state and to see the truth you have to put on the glasses.”Slavoj Žižek · ideology reversal (They Live)
“today it's almost the opposite. ideology directly addresses you with pleasures. enjoy, do it.”Slavoj Žižek · ideology today
“the crucial point is what you don't have to do when you do this.”Slavoj Žižek · determinate negation (ecology)
“love, authentic, passionate love is a catastrophe.”Slavoj Žižek · love as catastrophe
“in sex without love, we are just using each other as masturbatory props.”Slavoj Žižek · sex without love
“the new forms of enslavement, subordination are sold to us as new forms of freedom.”Slavoj Žižek · post-ideological enslavement
“the message is not only you have to go, but you have to go voluntarily.”Slavoj Žižek · the permissive father
“domination has to assume the form of freedom. domination can no longer be openly, directly asserted.”Slavoj Žižek · domination as freedom
“real freedom is something very painful. it hurts.”Slavoj Žižek · real freedom
“ah, so hitler was our enemy because we were not listening to his story. no, there are real enemies, my god.”Slavoj Žižek · against the multiculturalist saying
“eurocentrism is the only possible form of true non-eurocentric universalism. you have to go through this cartesian zero.”Slavoj Žižek · eurocentrism as universalism
“transgenderism today for me the greatest practical embodiment of cartesian cogito.”Slavoj Žižek · transgenderism / cogito
“you can be a pig as a person but you are an authentic artist and your work says a different thing.”Slavoj Žižek · Wagner / work vs person
“if there ever was a eurocentric idea it's communism.”Slavoj Žižek · communism as eurocentric
“happiness is for idiots.”Slavoj Žižek · against happiness
“i'm afraid that if i stop talking for a second. you will get a breathing space to really listen to what i'm saying and you will see that it's bullshit.”Slavoj Žižek · self-mistrust / interviews
“the truth hurts, it's painful. liberation is painful. liberation is not, oh my god, now i'm happy and so on.”Slavoj Žižek · liberation is painful
“we discovered this axis, not rome-berlin, but hegel-lacan. and we are there even now. we are very happy here.”Slavoj Žižek · the Hegel-Lacan axis
Transcript 175 turns
Host
herzlich willkommen zur sternstunde philosophie, diesmal aus dem gottlieb-duttweiler-institut in rüschlikon. für meinen heutigen gast hat die philosophie vor allem eine aufgabe. sie soll verwirren und fragen stellen. fragen beantworten mag mein gast hingegen nicht besonders gern. unser gespräch kann also heiter werden. ich freue mich umso mehr, dass slavoj žižek hier ist, ein tausendsassa der ideen und worte, die er in dutzenden von büchern zu wilden weltdeutungen zusammenfügt. der vielfach preisgekrönte professor für philosophie und psychoanalyse begeistert gleichermaßen wie er anet. die einen feiern ihn als superstar der linken, für die anderen ist er das enfant terrible der philosophie. er selber mag keine fremdzuschreibungen und deshalb frage ich ihn lieber gleich selbst. slavoj žižek, wer sind sie?
herzlich willkommen zur sternstunde philosophie, diesmal aus dem gottlieb-duttweiler-institut in rüschlikon. für meinen heutigen gast hat die philosophie vor allem eine aufgabe. sie soll verwirren und fragen stellen. fragen beantworten mag mein gast hingegen nicht besonders gern. unser gespräch kann also heiter werden. ich freue mich umso mehr, dass slavoj žižek hier ist, ein tausendsassa der ideen und worte, die er in dutzenden von büchern zu wilden weltdeutungen zusammenfügt. der vielfach preisgekrönte professor für philosophie und psychoanalyse begeistert gleichermaßen wie er anet. die einen feiern ihn als superstar der linken, für die anderen ist er das enfant terrible der philosophie. er selber mag keine fremdzuschreibungen und deshalb frage ich ihn lieber gleich selbst. slavoj žižek, wer sind sie?
Slavoj Žižek
das weiß ich nicht und ich will das nicht wissen. but seriously, you described me quite correctly, but i don't think this is some vague cheating. i think that precisely in today's situation, maybe it's much more important to ask the right question than to simply provide answers. the problem of ideology, ideology is the wrong way to address a problem like ecology. we all know this is a problem, but how do we solve? do it do we see it in a conservative way we should return to old organic community do we see it in a communist way that only a central government you see what is maybe even more important.
das weiß ich nicht und ich will das nicht wissen. but seriously, you described me quite correctly, but i don't think this is some vague cheating. i think that precisely in today's situation, maybe it's much more important to ask the right question than to simply provide answers. the problem of ideology, ideology is the wrong way to address a problem like ecology. we all know this is a problem, but how do we solve? do it do we see it in a conservative way we should return to old organic community do we see it in a communist way that only a central government you see what is maybe even more important.
Host
denkt richtig.
denkt richtig.
Slavoj Žižek
frageage.
frageage.
Host
aber auf ihrem t-shirt steht, i would prefer not to. ist das auch bezogen auf antworten geben?
aber auf ihrem t-shirt steht, i would prefer not to. ist das auch bezogen auf antworten geben?
Slavoj Žižek
there is a whole theory. i don't want to bore our gracious listeners with did, but the crucial point for me is that it says i would prefer not to. not, i don't prefer to do it. so it's not that... predicate is denied, it is that a non-predicate is asserted. and i will say what's the difference kant gives a wonderful difference, establishes it, which is why he is for me the greatest theor theorist of zombies. look, if i tell you you are not dead. i deny a predicate. what does this mean? it means simply you are alive if you are not dead. but if i say, and i hope you know stephen king and all that, if i tell you not you are not dead, but you are undead. this means something different. living dead, monster and so on. and this between the two domain, this is in a way the domain of spirit, in the wonderful ambiguity of the word. spiritgeist means spirit as pure thinking and geister those who make us fear, terrorize us. and i think this ambiguity is crucial.
there is a whole theory. i don't want to bore our gracious listeners with did, but the crucial point for me is that it says i would prefer not to. not, i don't prefer to do it. so it's not that... predicate is denied, it is that a non-predicate is asserted. and i will say what's the difference kant gives a wonderful difference, establishes it, which is why he is for me the greatest theor theorist of zombies. look, if i tell you you are not dead. i deny a predicate. what does this mean? it means simply you are alive if you are not dead. but if i say, and i hope you know stephen king and all that, if i tell you not you are not dead, but you are undead. this means something different. living dead, monster and so on. and this between the two domain, this is in a way the domain of spirit, in the wonderful ambiguity of the word. spiritgeist means spirit as pure thinking and geister those who make us fear, terrorize us. and i think this ambiguity is crucial.
Host
das erinnert mich an einen witz, den sie immer so gerne erzählen. der witz, in dem es um die betonung geht, der negativität. sie erzählen immer diesen witz von einem gast, der in ein restaurant kommt, er bestellt einen kaffee ohne rahmen und der kellner sagt, leider haben wir keinen rahmen mehr, ich bringe ihnen einen kaffee ohne milch. geht das auch.
das erinnert mich an einen witz, den sie immer so gerne erzählen. der witz, in dem es um die betonung geht, der negativität. sie erzählen immer diesen witz von einem gast, der in ein restaurant kommt, er bestellt einen kaffee ohne rahmen und der kellner sagt, leider haben wir keinen rahmen mehr, ich bringe ihnen einen kaffee ohne milch. geht das auch.
Slavoj Žižek
mil, ja.
mil, ja.
Host
genau, weil wir nur milch haben. warum ist es ein unterschied, kaff ohne milch oder caféaff ohne r?
genau, weil wir nur milch haben. warum ist es ein unterschied, kaff ohne milch oder caféaff ohne r?
Slavoj Žižek
ah, you see, in meine volkrepublik. where i would have been in a minister, you would get two years of re-education camp, not. because this is what hegel is about. this is the best example of what hegel calls bestimmte negation, determin negation. that negation is part of what an object is, what it did not. so of course, materially, coffee without milk is the same as coffee without cream. just plain coffee.
ah, you see, in meine volkrepublik. where i would have been in a minister, you would get two years of re-education camp, not. because this is what hegel is about. this is the best example of what hegel calls bestimmte negation, determin negation. that negation is part of what an object is, what it did not. so of course, materially, coffee without milk is the same as coffee without cream. just plain coffee.
Host
get out.
get out.
Slavoj Žižek
but it's not the same. and this precisely because it matters what it negates. and i will give you a wonderful variation of this joke from my youth. when, you know, i lived in a communist country, it wasn't too bad liberal communism, but nonetheless, you didn't get things
but it's not the same. and this precisely because it matters what it negates. and i will give you a wonderful variation of this joke from my youth. when, you know, i lived in a communist country, it wasn't too bad liberal communism, but nonetheless, you didn't get things
Host
ichien aufgewachsen ja.
ichien aufgewachsen ja.
Slavoj Žižek
yeah, and i remember the joke was this one because there are think somebody enters a store and asks there, is it that you still don't have butter? and the person there answers, sorry, you're the wrong store. we are the store which doesn't have oil. the store which doesn't have butter is across the street there, you know? like this is and again, i could give, i think that even
yeah, and i remember the joke was this one because there are think somebody enters a store and asks there, is it that you still don't have butter? and the person there answers, sorry, you're the wrong store. we are the store which doesn't have oil. the store which doesn't have butter is across the street there, you know? like this is and again, i could give, i think that even
Host
ja, was ist jetzt genau übertrag auf den alltag? sie haben ja gesagt, ich soll da in das erziehungslager gehen, was lerne ich da bezieh dem alltag?
ja, was ist jetzt genau übertrag auf den alltag? sie haben ja gesagt, ich soll da in das erziehungslager gehen, was lerne ich da bezieh dem alltag?
Slavoj Žižek
i will refer to philosophical everyday day, sorry, ideological every day. that's, i think, one of the ways, but i don't have time to explain it now, it will take too long time, how ideology cheats. it offers you. coffee and it implies that it's coffee without milk but it's really coffee without cream. that's like and this background what is missing but it's there it's crucial. let me give you another example that i use in my books of how this unmentioned background functions. in a nice old english leftist film brushed off you have one of the the erotic scenes that i've ever seen with ivan mcgregor, he plays an ordinary worker who is in love with some young manager girl. he accompanied her home and she invites him up, she tells him, would you like to come up for a coffee to my apartment? he says, i would love to, but unfortunately i don't drink coffee. you know what she answers? no problem, i don't have any. can you imagine a more direct erotic invitation but precisely nothing dirty is said. and this phenomena, they embody ideology how it functions in everyday life. i like them you know which for me like grundphänomen zero level of ideology. i'm always fascinated by it. so-called gestures which are meant to be rejected. like let's say we are in a restaurant. you are rich, i am poor, you invite me. i think you have it here in this country also, as in my country, even if we both know that you will pay when the bill arrives.
i will refer to philosophical everyday day, sorry, ideological every day. that's, i think, one of the ways, but i don't have time to explain it now, it will take too long time, how ideology cheats. it offers you. coffee and it implies that it's coffee without milk but it's really coffee without cream. that's like and this background what is missing but it's there it's crucial. let me give you another example that i use in my books of how this unmentioned background functions. in a nice old english leftist film brushed off you have one of the the erotic scenes that i've ever seen with ivan mcgregor, he plays an ordinary worker who is in love with some young manager girl. he accompanied her home and she invites him up, she tells him, would you like to come up for a coffee to my apartment? he says, i would love to, but unfortunately i don't drink coffee. you know what she answers? no problem, i don't have any. can you imagine a more direct erotic invitation but precisely nothing dirty is said. and this phenomena, they embody ideology how it functions in everyday life. i like them you know which for me like grundphänomen zero level of ideology. i'm always fascinated by it. so-called gestures which are meant to be rejected. like let's say we are in a restaurant. you are rich, i am poor, you invite me. i think you have it here in this country also, as in my country, even if we both know that you will pay when the bill arrives.
Host
we.
we.
Slavoj Žižek
yes, i should insist a little bit, not too much, because if i insist too much, you are evil, you can say, okay, then you pay if you want. but you see, so the result is zero. nonsense. i did something, i knew it will be rejected. but the magic of everyday ideology is that although the result was zero, nonetheless, our link was established. the link of kindness, you know, the signal was we are polite to you. each other, maybe we like each other, this is where ideology is alive.
yes, i should insist a little bit, not too much, because if i insist too much, you are evil, you can say, okay, then you pay if you want. but you see, so the result is zero. nonsense. i did something, i knew it will be rejected. but the magic of everyday ideology is that although the result was zero, nonetheless, our link was established. the link of kindness, you know, the signal was we are polite to you. each other, maybe we like each other, this is where ideology is alive.
Host
und damit sind wir mitten beim thema, über das wir heute eigentlich vor allem sprechen wollen, nämlich über ideologie und ideologieiekritik. eigentlich ihr lebensthema, kann man fast schon sagen.
und damit sind wir mitten beim thema, über das wir heute eigentlich vor allem sprechen wollen, nämlich über ideologie und ideologieiekritik. eigentlich ihr lebensthema, kann man fast schon sagen.
Slavoj Žižek
ja,.
ja,.
Host
und in diesem zusammenhang verweisen sie selber sehr oft auf einen film von john carpenter, der heißt wir leben und in diesem film gibt es eine figur, john nada, die hauptfigur, arbeitslos, er findet eine kiste mit sonnenbren.
und in diesem zusammenhang verweisen sie selber sehr oft auf einen film von john carpenter, der heißt wir leben und in diesem film gibt es eine figur, john nada, die hauptfigur, arbeitslos, er findet eine kiste mit sonnenbren.
Slavoj Žižek
prop
prop
Host
not.
not.
Slavoj Žižek
nicht.
nicht.
Host
nada, genau. und dieser mensch, der die sonnenbrille findet, john nada, der setzt diese sonnenbrille auf und in dem moment sieht er überall die ideologien hinter den produkten, hinter den werbeplakaten, auch hinter den personen. und wir schauen uns zusammen einen ausschnitt aus dem film an.
nada, genau. und dieser mensch, der die sonnenbrille findet, john nada, der setzt diese sonnenbrille auf und in dem moment sieht er überall die ideologien hinter den produkten, hinter den werbeplakaten, auch hinter den personen. und wir schauen uns zusammen einen ausschnitt aus dem film an.
Film Clip
good holy. heirate und vermehre dich. keine selbstständigen gedanken. konsumieren. unterwürf dich, schlaf weiter, sieh fern.
good holy. heirate und vermehre dich. keine selbstständigen gedanken. konsumieren. unterwürf dich, schlaf weiter, sieh fern.
Host
herr žižek, was zeigt der film?
herr žižek, was zeigt der film?
Slavoj Žižek
the movie shows how ideology functions actually in our daily life. what do i mean by this? two things i love in this scene. first, it's the opposite of what we would have expected. usually we think ideology is as glasses which distort our vision and to see reality you have to take off the glasses. i like this gentle sorry, i mean refined reverse that here on the opposite it is the correct thesis of the film. ideology is our natural state and to see the truth you have to put on the glasses. the second thing that is important is that traditionally. ideologie worked in the opposite way. the official message was this pure ethical one. obey, sacrifice yourself, and then... you had to put glasses on to get the obscene under message. the examples that i always give. for example. in fascism, nazism. the official message was enough of decadence. sacrifice yourself, work for the country. but then, in order to make this message. functional ideology bribed you with whatever. you can beat, you can beat, you can beat the jews or whatever, or the dirty pleasures. or in america, ku klux klan. officially christianity we defend the white race. the truth of it was, what do you see when you put glasses on? saturday evening, we gather, we rape some black girls, we lynch some blacks. so in traditional ideology, this surplus enjoyment, the dirty obscene enjoyment the way those power bribe you to collaborate is hidden. today it's almost the opposite. ideology directly addresses you with pleasures. enjoy, do it. so we need glasses to see the real image.
the movie shows how ideology functions actually in our daily life. what do i mean by this? two things i love in this scene. first, it's the opposite of what we would have expected. usually we think ideology is as glasses which distort our vision and to see reality you have to take off the glasses. i like this gentle sorry, i mean refined reverse that here on the opposite it is the correct thesis of the film. ideology is our natural state and to see the truth you have to put on the glasses. the second thing that is important is that traditionally. ideologie worked in the opposite way. the official message was this pure ethical one. obey, sacrifice yourself, and then... you had to put glasses on to get the obscene under message. the examples that i always give. for example. in fascism, nazism. the official message was enough of decadence. sacrifice yourself, work for the country. but then, in order to make this message. functional ideology bribed you with whatever. you can beat, you can beat, you can beat the jews or whatever, or the dirty pleasures. or in america, ku klux klan. officially christianity we defend the white race. the truth of it was, what do you see when you put glasses on? saturday evening, we gather, we rape some black girls, we lynch some blacks. so in traditional ideology, this surplus enjoyment, the dirty obscene enjoyment the way those power bribe you to collaborate is hidden. today it's almost the opposite. ideology directly addresses you with pleasures. enjoy, do it. so we need glasses to see the real image.
Host
lassen sie uns das ausprobieren, herr žižek, ich habe eine brille mitgebracht und wir gehen jetzt mal davon aus, das wäre eine...
lassen sie uns das ausprobieren, herr žižek, ich habe eine brille mitgebracht und wir gehen jetzt mal davon aus, das wäre eine...
Slavoj Žižek
die richtige brille, weil ich will
die richtige brille, weil ich will
Host
ich bin bereit.
ich bin bereit.
Slavoj Žižek
million franken zu zahlen für richt.
million franken zu zahlen für richt.
Host
probieren sie mal aus.
probieren sie mal aus.
Slavoj Žižek
okay, oh my god.
okay, oh my god.
Host
nehmen wir mal an, es wäre eine sol. yeah.
nehmen wir mal an, es wäre eine sol. yeah.
Slavoj Žižek
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Host
ich weiß.
ich weiß.
Slavoj Žižek
jetzt sehe ich eine schöne frau und jetzt sehe ich, du musst nicht denken, du musst nur am se denken, du musst dumm bleiben, nicht denken, frei denken. okay, gehen wir weiter.
jetzt sehe ich eine schöne frau und jetzt sehe ich, du musst nicht denken, du musst nur am se denken, du musst dumm bleiben, nicht denken, frei denken. okay, gehen wir weiter.
Host
yeah.
yeah.
Slavoj Žižek
.
.
Host
das ist meine wahre natur. jetzt, was sehen sie hier?
das ist meine wahre natur. jetzt, was sehen sie hier?
Slavoj Žižek
ah. i can answer you this one perfectly. what i see here now without glasses is a wonderful instrument. instant messages. i don't need my computer to check email. i'm in contact with everyone. what do i see now? stay connected because in this way the big brother. whoever it is, apple, microsoft. we can totally control you, we know whom you called, we inform nsa about it and so on and so on.
ah. i can answer you this one perfectly. what i see here now without glasses is a wonderful instrument. instant messages. i don't need my computer to check email. i'm in contact with everyone. what do i see now? stay connected because in this way the big brother. whoever it is, apple, microsoft. we can totally control you, we know whom you called, we inform nsa about it and so on and so on.
Host
also das ist das, was wir sehen würden, wenn wir die ideologie hier und dransehen. wie ist es damit? eine vegane schokolade, biologische schokolate, fair trade?
also das ist das, was wir sehen würden, wenn wir die ideologie hier und dransehen. wie ist es damit? eine vegane schokolade, biologische schokolate, fair trade?
Slavoj Žižek
okay, here what i see is wonderful. oh, i can enjoy chocolate and at the same time i do something for mother nature. i contribute to ecological stability and so on. fair trade, i help them. when i put this on, i see the ideology, which is i am a consumerist. and uh... uh. instead of doing something. to really change. things to, i don't know, do something to stop ecological ecological ruining the earth or whatever. i buy this, i pay a little bit more and i can remain consumerist with good conscience.
okay, here what i see is wonderful. oh, i can enjoy chocolate and at the same time i do something for mother nature. i contribute to ecological stability and so on. fair trade, i help them. when i put this on, i see the ideology, which is i am a consumerist. and uh... uh. instead of doing something. to really change. things to, i don't know, do something to stop ecological ecological ruining the earth or whatever. i buy this, i pay a little bit more and i can remain consumerist with good conscience.
Host
ablasshandel.
ablasshandel.
Slavoj Žižek
yeah, yeah, like, you know, like, oh, i bought this one, so sorry. leave me alone with big political topic. i already did my duty towards society and so on. it's pure ideology.
yeah, yeah, like, you know, like, oh, i bought this one, so sorry. leave me alone with big political topic. i already did my duty towards society and so on. it's pure ideology.
Host
kaufen sie selber nie bio-produkte?
kaufen sie selber nie bio-produkte?
Slavoj Žižek
i know that some of them maybe really are better, but i always have this doubt. d. in reality and ideological operation. you know also why because listen we all know that to even confront properly our ecological predicament, the possible catastrophe, this cannot be done at this personal level. ah, did you recycle more? did you put away all cans of coke? something much more radical. has to be done. the ruling system gives you here an easy option. just do this, recycle a little bit by this and you did your duty. you can enjoy consumerism. so it's really, they offer you to do something, but the function of this something, again we are at hegel, bestimmte negation, is you don't have, you know, the crucial point is what schlag oder what you don't have to do. when you do this.
i know that some of them maybe really are better, but i always have this doubt. d. in reality and ideological operation. you know also why because listen we all know that to even confront properly our ecological predicament, the possible catastrophe, this cannot be done at this personal level. ah, did you recycle more? did you put away all cans of coke? something much more radical. has to be done. the ruling system gives you here an easy option. just do this, recycle a little bit by this and you did your duty. you can enjoy consumerism. so it's really, they offer you to do something, but the function of this something, again we are at hegel, bestimmte negation, is you don't have, you know, the crucial point is what schlag oder what you don't have to do. when you do this.
Host
aber eigentlich sind sie ja schon dafür, dass man beispielsweise die produktionsbedingungen, sagen wir mal, auf kakaoplplantagen verbessert. und wenn sie die wahl haben zwischen der schokolade, bei denen der kao fair angebaut wurde, gegenüber demjenigen, bei dem das nicht der fall ist, dann müssten sie doch eigentlich mit ihrem...
aber eigentlich sind sie ja schon dafür, dass man beispielsweise die produktionsbedingungen, sagen wir mal, auf kakaoplplantagen verbessert. und wenn sie die wahl haben zwischen der schokolade, bei denen der kao fair angebaut wurde, gegenüber demjenigen, bei dem das nicht der fall ist, dann müssten sie doch eigentlich mit ihrem...
Slavoj Žižek
here i recycle of course i'm not a cynic i just don't really believe, i'm maybe too resigned, melancholic, that it really works. for example, okay, russia, russland is here maybe an extreme case. but my russian friends tell me that when you have some big action there to help children with cancer and so on, if you are lucky, 10% of the money will really go to those children and so on.
here i recycle of course i'm not a cynic i just don't really believe, i'm maybe too resigned, melancholic, that it really works. for example, okay, russia, russland is here maybe an extreme case. but my russian friends tell me that when you have some big action there to help children with cancer and so on, if you are lucky, 10% of the money will really go to those children and so on.
Host
lassen sie mich das hier ihnen noch geben. jetzt bin ich sehr gespannt. welche ideologie steckt dahinter, wenn alles voller ideologie steckt?
lassen sie mich das hier ihnen noch geben. jetzt bin ich sehr gespannt. welche ideologie steckt dahinter, wenn alles voller ideologie steckt?
Slavoj Žižek
similar, it's similar to
similar, it's similar to
Host
zade.
zade.
Slavoj Žižek
to that one, i claim uh... of course i in general support... beop product and so on and so on. i just to put it bluntly, i don't think it works. the first reason i don't think it works is that i am an ecologist but a much more radical one i'm not a sorry ecologist by this i mean i'm not against pollution because we humanity, through our hubris, we disturb the balance of the mother earth, so we should live more modestly and so on. i think the situation is much more crazy and difficult. maybe earth is our mother, but it's an evil bitch. it's a horrible mother. just think about oil. can you even imagine what terrifying ecological catastrophes must have happened? so that we have oil today. so what i mean is that that's the tragedy. there is no ecological balance. a zero level to which we can return. no, we live in an open, crazy contingent universe. i read, i forgot his name, i'm sorry, a german ecologist who wrote a wonderful serious text where he demonstrates that the problem with our earth is that. it is already so accommodated to our pollution. that wish if we stop polluting it too fast. it would throw it off balance and who knows what catastrophe will happen. so again, i take ecology extremely seriously, but i think precisely because of this, i don't like these easy ways out.
to that one, i claim uh... of course i in general support... beop product and so on and so on. i just to put it bluntly, i don't think it works. the first reason i don't think it works is that i am an ecologist but a much more radical one i'm not a sorry ecologist by this i mean i'm not against pollution because we humanity, through our hubris, we disturb the balance of the mother earth, so we should live more modestly and so on. i think the situation is much more crazy and difficult. maybe earth is our mother, but it's an evil bitch. it's a horrible mother. just think about oil. can you even imagine what terrifying ecological catastrophes must have happened? so that we have oil today. so what i mean is that that's the tragedy. there is no ecological balance. a zero level to which we can return. no, we live in an open, crazy contingent universe. i read, i forgot his name, i'm sorry, a german ecologist who wrote a wonderful serious text where he demonstrates that the problem with our earth is that. it is already so accommodated to our pollution. that wish if we stop polluting it too fast. it would throw it off balance and who knows what catastrophe will happen. so again, i take ecology extremely seriously, but i think precisely because of this, i don't like these easy ways out.
Host
vielleicht nehmen sie die brille wieder ab, weil sonst bin ich dieses wesen, das ich eigentlich eben überhaupt nicht bin. und jetzt möchte ich nochmal auf den punkt zurückkommen mit dem brille abnehmen. sie haben ja darauf hingewiesen, die pointe im film ist auch, dass um die ideologie zu sehen, muss man die brille anziehen. und sie sagen, ideologie ist eigentlich unsere natur.
vielleicht nehmen sie die brille wieder ab, weil sonst bin ich dieses wesen, das ich eigentlich eben überhaupt nicht bin. und jetzt möchte ich nochmal auf den punkt zurückkommen mit dem brille abnehmen. sie haben ja darauf hingewiesen, die pointe im film ist auch, dass um die ideologie zu sehen, muss man die brille anziehen. und sie sagen, ideologie ist eigentlich unsere natur.
Slavoj Žižek
nein, um,, it's in the nature of ideology that you don't see it. once you see it, you are no longer in ideology.
nein, um,, it's in the nature of ideology that you don't see it. once you see it, you are no longer in ideology.
Host
und es gibt in diesem film auch die szene, in der john nada die brille seinem freund geben will, aber der freund will sie nicht.
und es gibt in diesem film auch die szene, in der john nada die brille seinem freund geben will, aber der freund will sie nicht.
Slavoj Žižek
that's very deep lesson.
that's very deep lesson.
Host
ist das denn wirklich so, wir wollen das gar nicht sehen?
ist das denn wirklich so, wir wollen das gar nicht sehen?
Slavoj Žižek
yes, yes, precisely this. i claim that you have a similar scene in matrix where a guy who wants to be corrupted by the matrix, the machine, says, i don't care about the truth, i just want to be happy in my illusion. i'm much more of a pessimist. i think even bertolt brecht once wrote this, that the truth hurts, it's painful. liberation is painful. liberation is not, oh my god, now i'm happy and so on. you know another film, maybe some viewers knew it. you remember with brad pitt and ed norton, fight club. it's a wonderful scene where ed norton wants to beat his boss, but his fist becomes almost an autonomous object and beats him in the back. that's the beginning of ideolog critique. to beat the enemy, you must first, sorry, to use this halfirty term, beat the shit out of yourself.
yes, yes, precisely this. i claim that you have a similar scene in matrix where a guy who wants to be corrupted by the matrix, the machine, says, i don't care about the truth, i just want to be happy in my illusion. i'm much more of a pessimist. i think even bertolt brecht once wrote this, that the truth hurts, it's painful. liberation is painful. liberation is not, oh my god, now i'm happy and so on. you know another film, maybe some viewers knew it. you remember with brad pitt and ed norton, fight club. it's a wonderful scene where ed norton wants to beat his boss, but his fist becomes almost an autonomous object and beats him in the back. that's the beginning of ideolog critique. to beat the enemy, you must first, sorry, to use this halfirty term, beat the shit out of yourself.
Host
sie nehmen sehr viel bezug auf filme, das ist ja auch in ihren büchern so und es gibt auch ganze filmmdatenbanken, die sie aufbauen, in denen sie filme besprechen, filme erklären. wenn wir mal davon ausgehen, dass sie auch sagen, hollywood ist eigentlich pure ideologie, in hollywood finden wir alle die ideologien erklärt und auch eben transparent gemacht, dann können wir auch sagen, naja, ein großteil von hollywood ist ja eigentlich, sind romantische komödien, liebe. und liebe mag eine illusion sein, aber ist liebe eine ideologie?
sie nehmen sehr viel bezug auf filme, das ist ja auch in ihren büchern so und es gibt auch ganze filmmdatenbanken, die sie aufbauen, in denen sie filme besprechen, filme erklären. wenn wir mal davon ausgehen, dass sie auch sagen, hollywood ist eigentlich pure ideologie, in hollywood finden wir alle die ideologien erklärt und auch eben transparent gemacht, dann können wir auch sagen, naja, ein großteil von hollywood ist ja eigentlich, sind romantische komödien, liebe. und liebe mag eine illusion sein, aber ist liebe eine ideologie?
Slavoj Žižek
now, first i want to make things clear. i am not condemning hollywood. hollywood is a wonderful, ambiguous ideological machine there is a predominant ideology but from time to time, all the time, you get directors who from within undermine this ideology. let me give you a wonderful example. robert altman shortcuts. it's the most efficient, best ideologyologie critique that i know about this everyday. middle class, the despair of everyday middle class american lives and so on and so on. so i'm not this type of fetishist to be a really truthful film. it must be a boring artwork for third world country, whatever. no, you have an already beat hollywood classics. i believe in alfred hitchcock still. not to mention the genius of all geniuses, ernst lubitsch and so on. i mean, i think that one should really... watch hollywood closely and see how in its best products hollywood undermines itself.
now, first i want to make things clear. i am not condemning hollywood. hollywood is a wonderful, ambiguous ideological machine there is a predominant ideology but from time to time, all the time, you get directors who from within undermine this ideology. let me give you a wonderful example. robert altman shortcuts. it's the most efficient, best ideologyologie critique that i know about this everyday. middle class, the despair of everyday middle class american lives and so on and so on. so i'm not this type of fetishist to be a really truthful film. it must be a boring artwork for third world country, whatever. no, you have an already beat hollywood classics. i believe in alfred hitchcock still. not to mention the genius of all geniuses, ernst lubitsch and so on. i mean, i think that one should really... watch hollywood closely and see how in its best products hollywood undermines itself.
Host
und was würde es heißen, die liebe zu unterwandern in dieser art und weise?
und was würde es heißen, die liebe zu unterwandern in dieser art und weise?
Slavoj Žižek
ah, liebe, the best topic. when is it ideology, when it's not. i'm here first, this may surprise you, very romantic. i don't think that liebe is just an ideological sentimental mask. it's really about power, sex or whatever. i think that... but what is liebe? love? i don't believe in universal love. if we now mix love and politics, for me, the ultimate statement of universal love is remember the last words in theer. volkskammer whatever of erich milke when the system was already disintegrating. people started, members of volkshammer started to attack him and he made this legendary gesture like this and aber ich liebe alle that's universal love. i for me. love, authentic, passionate love is a catastrophe. listen, what does love mean? i live a alone, happy life, i meet with friends, we drink beer, i have maybe a one-night stand here and there. and then something totally stupid happens. i walk along the street, i sleep on a banana peel, a woman helps me to stand up. i look at her, it's love of my life.
ah, liebe, the best topic. when is it ideology, when it's not. i'm here first, this may surprise you, very romantic. i don't think that liebe is just an ideological sentimental mask. it's really about power, sex or whatever. i think that... but what is liebe? love? i don't believe in universal love. if we now mix love and politics, for me, the ultimate statement of universal love is remember the last words in theer. volkskammer whatever of erich milke when the system was already disintegrating. people started, members of volkshammer started to attack him and he made this legendary gesture like this and aber ich liebe alle that's universal love. i for me. love, authentic, passionate love is a catastrophe. listen, what does love mean? i live a alone, happy life, i meet with friends, we drink beer, i have maybe a one-night stand here and there. and then something totally stupid happens. i walk along the street, i sleep on a banana peel, a woman helps me to stand up. i look at her, it's love of my life.
Host
schreiben sie ihr reales leben?
schreiben sie ihr reales leben?
Slavoj Žižek
no, no, i don't eat bananas and so on, but as a model. can you imagine what catastrophe is this? i no longer can enjoy in peace my love. i'm totally obsessed by her. everything gets out of joint, to quote shakespeare and so on. but this is for me the absolute. here i am a metaphysician. this is the fundamental metaphysical experience. physical experience is everyday life. i care for my pleasures and so on. and so on. and here i think we humans are metaphysical beings. when you become fixed on something which simply interrupts this stupid daily rhythm and you are ready to sacrifice everything for it. here freud was right when he located becoming human in sexuality. when freud speaks about sexuality, it's not animal sexuality. it's precisely this sexual passion which goes jenseits the lustpr, beyond pleasure principle, which just dails you totally and makes a kind of you a slave of some kind of metaphysical obsession. and i think, again, this is true love. true love is a catastrophe. that's why it's nice to be in love.
no, no, i don't eat bananas and so on, but as a model. can you imagine what catastrophe is this? i no longer can enjoy in peace my love. i'm totally obsessed by her. everything gets out of joint, to quote shakespeare and so on. but this is for me the absolute. here i am a metaphysician. this is the fundamental metaphysical experience. physical experience is everyday life. i care for my pleasures and so on. and so on. and here i think we humans are metaphysical beings. when you become fixed on something which simply interrupts this stupid daily rhythm and you are ready to sacrifice everything for it. here freud was right when he located becoming human in sexuality. when freud speaks about sexuality, it's not animal sexuality. it's precisely this sexual passion which goes jenseits the lustpr, beyond pleasure principle, which just dails you totally and makes a kind of you a slave of some kind of metaphysical obsession. and i think, again, this is true love. true love is a catastrophe. that's why it's nice to be in love.
Host
glauben sie trotzdem an die liebe?
glauben sie trotzdem an die liebe?
Slavoj Žižek
absolutely. i'm very, i even think that to put it in... plitic terms that. sex without love, it can be pleasurable, but it has the structure of masturbation. basically in sex. without love, we are just using each other as masturbatory props. let me tell you an anecdote that i elaborated at this point. i was asked three years ago by guardian what would be the ideal romance today? romance. is it over? no, i said this would have been. let's say we are flirting with each other, then finally we decide to do it, but how? i bring! with me, that vulgar machine where you have plastic vagina. and you put your. pen in and you connect it to electricity and it shakes. you bring i'm sorry your plastic penis. no, don't worry it will not be vulgar ending. that's the beauty. so we sit down and we say let's do it. okay we do it. you plug in yours i plug in mine and you put your plastic penis into my plastic vagina and then we see okay the machines are buzzing they're enjoying for us. and we can have nice tea and talk about philosophy or whatever. but i think to break out of this masturbatory artificial enjoyment, it has to be love.
absolutely. i'm very, i even think that to put it in... plitic terms that. sex without love, it can be pleasurable, but it has the structure of masturbation. basically in sex. without love, we are just using each other as masturbatory props. let me tell you an anecdote that i elaborated at this point. i was asked three years ago by guardian what would be the ideal romance today? romance. is it over? no, i said this would have been. let's say we are flirting with each other, then finally we decide to do it, but how? i bring! with me, that vulgar machine where you have plastic vagina. and you put your. pen in and you connect it to electricity and it shakes. you bring i'm sorry your plastic penis. no, don't worry it will not be vulgar ending. that's the beauty. so we sit down and we say let's do it. okay we do it. you plug in yours i plug in mine and you put your plastic penis into my plastic vagina and then we see okay the machines are buzzing they're enjoying for us. and we can have nice tea and talk about philosophy or whatever. but i think to break out of this masturbatory artificial enjoyment, it has to be love.
Host
jetzt sind wir von der ideologie zuliebe gekommen. kommen wir noch einmal zurück zur ideologie. wir leben heute ja nicht mehr in einer disziplinargesellschaft, wie das früher der fall war, in der die ideologiekritik groß geworden ist, sondern wir leben in einer liberalen gesellschaft. wir haben sehr, sehr viele freiheiten. dennoch sehen sie uns ein stück weit als verknechtete individuen. wer sitzt denn jetzt an den schalttabn der macht?
jetzt sind wir von der ideologie zuliebe gekommen. kommen wir noch einmal zurück zur ideologie. wir leben heute ja nicht mehr in einer disziplinargesellschaft, wie das früher der fall war, in der die ideologiekritik groß geworden ist, sondern wir leben in einer liberalen gesellschaft. wir haben sehr, sehr viele freiheiten. dennoch sehen sie uns ein stück weit als verknechtete individuen. wer sitzt denn jetzt an den schalttabn der macht?
Slavoj Žižek
it doesn't have to be that somebody really sits there, but what fascinates me is how precisely today, in an era where officially it's no longer ideology, post-ideological and so on, ideology is more than ever something that structures our daily life. and the great success of today's ideology is that the new forms of enslavement, subordination are sold to us as new forms of freedom. let me give an example. now, less and less people have a permanent employment. you are a precarious worker. you don't get in many countries permanent health care and so on. ideology tells you, listen, isn't this wonderful? you are no longer fixed into one role. every year you can reinvent yourself and then... the fact that you don't have permanent healthcare. they tell you, but listen, each of us is now a small capitalist. let's say you have 5000 euros. you can freely decide how to invest them buy healthcare, go to a nice holiday, pay special studio for instance. you see the trick. what is actually a new form of anxiety, permanent stress is sold to you as a new form of freedom. this and another thing i will give you another example of how this permissivity can be even more oppressive. uh. let's consider paternal authority imagine sunday afternoon you are a small girl father comes to you and tells you, listen. your grandmother has a birthday, you have to visit her. let's say your father is the traditional authoritarian father. he will do something nice. he will tell you, i don't care how you feel, you have to go there and behave properly.
it doesn't have to be that somebody really sits there, but what fascinates me is how precisely today, in an era where officially it's no longer ideology, post-ideological and so on, ideology is more than ever something that structures our daily life. and the great success of today's ideology is that the new forms of enslavement, subordination are sold to us as new forms of freedom. let me give an example. now, less and less people have a permanent employment. you are a precarious worker. you don't get in many countries permanent health care and so on. ideology tells you, listen, isn't this wonderful? you are no longer fixed into one role. every year you can reinvent yourself and then... the fact that you don't have permanent healthcare. they tell you, but listen, each of us is now a small capitalist. let's say you have 5000 euros. you can freely decide how to invest them buy healthcare, go to a nice holiday, pay special studio for instance. you see the trick. what is actually a new form of anxiety, permanent stress is sold to you as a new form of freedom. this and another thing i will give you another example of how this permissivity can be even more oppressive. uh. let's consider paternal authority imagine sunday afternoon you are a small girl father comes to you and tells you, listen. your grandmother has a birthday, you have to visit her. let's say your father is the traditional authoritarian father. he will do something nice. he will tell you, i don't care how you feel, you have to go there and behave properly.
Host
he.
he.
Slavoj Žižek
nice, nice, because you can resist, you know where you are. but now comes the horror, the postmodern permissive father. he will tell you something like this. you do what you want. i don't want to force you. you are free to choose. just remember how much your grandmother loves you. now what is she really telling you? he's beneath the form of free choice. he is giving you a much more radical order. the message is not only you have to go, but you have to go voluntarily.
nice, nice, because you can resist, you know where you are. but now comes the horror, the postmodern permissive father. he will tell you something like this. you do what you want. i don't want to force you. you are free to choose. just remember how much your grandmother loves you. now what is she really telling you? he's beneath the form of free choice. he is giving you a much more radical order. the message is not only you have to go, but you have to go voluntarily.
Host
spr spricht ein stück weit der kritik am modernen chef, die sie ja auch haben.
spr spricht ein stück weit der kritik am modernen chef, die sie ja auch haben.
Slavoj Žižek
yeah, this is crucial for me how the modern chef is no longer this authoritarian chef in a tie. the modern chef exchanges obscene v with you. usually they don't even want to be called chef. they like to be called coordinator or things like this. but beneath this permissive appearance, it's even a much stronger authority. and that's what fascinates me again and again. this is why my not-f feminist pose. gender, whatever friend judith butler. i have a great polemics with her, but at some point she said something wonderful. she said that because today, oppression of women works precisely at this level. we no longer have, mostly, at least, we will see where we go, direct male dominance. but you know, men dominate you de facto in social, but they pretend to be equal, democratic, so that the first feminist gesture should be to demand from the man that he behaves as a master like don't bullshit. please don't pretend that we are equal when we are not equal. and you know why this works? because precisely because we live in a formally liberal era, this is no longer possible, basically. we live in a very interesting era where domination has to assume the form of freedom. domination can no longer be openly, directly asserted.
yeah, this is crucial for me how the modern chef is no longer this authoritarian chef in a tie. the modern chef exchanges obscene v with you. usually they don't even want to be called chef. they like to be called coordinator or things like this. but beneath this permissive appearance, it's even a much stronger authority. and that's what fascinates me again and again. this is why my not-f feminist pose. gender, whatever friend judith butler. i have a great polemics with her, but at some point she said something wonderful. she said that because today, oppression of women works precisely at this level. we no longer have, mostly, at least, we will see where we go, direct male dominance. but you know, men dominate you de facto in social, but they pretend to be equal, democratic, so that the first feminist gesture should be to demand from the man that he behaves as a master like don't bullshit. please don't pretend that we are equal when we are not equal. and you know why this works? because precisely because we live in a formally liberal era, this is no longer possible, basically. we live in a very interesting era where domination has to assume the form of freedom. domination can no longer be openly, directly asserted.
Host
und ist denn richtige freiheit richtig verstanden überhaupt möglich?
und ist denn richtige freiheit richtig verstanden überhaupt möglich?
Slavoj Žižek
i think it is, but here it may sound almost conservative. but i think real freedom is not this superficial freedom of choice. like we go to a pisserie and i don't know, erdbeertorte oder vanille.
i think it is, but here it may sound almost conservative. but i think real freedom is not this superficial freedom of choice. like we go to a pisserie and i don't know, erdbeertorte oder vanille.
Host
die ganze auswahl an.
die ganze auswahl an.
Slavoj Žižek
no. paradoxically. a truly free choice is a choice which you experience as a first choice. for example, let's say your country is under occupation and you have to decide, will you join the resistance or not? if you join it, it's not simply a choice. you do it because a voice of the vision of conscience tells you i cannot do it otherwise. i have to do it. so real freedom is something very painful. it hurts.
no. paradoxically. a truly free choice is a choice which you experience as a first choice. for example, let's say your country is under occupation and you have to decide, will you join the resistance or not? if you join it, it's not simply a choice. you do it because a voice of the vision of conscience tells you i cannot do it otherwise. i have to do it. so real freedom is something very painful. it hurts.
Host
lassen sie uns einen schnitt machen hin zur politik. eigentlich haben sie ja bereits getan.. eine neue idee, die sie im moment vertreten, ist, dass sie sagen, toleranz ist auch ideologie. und ein stück weit sehe ich natürlich, toleranz ist weniger als akzeptanz, es ist nicht die anerkennung.
lassen sie uns einen schnitt machen hin zur politik. eigentlich haben sie ja bereits getan.. eine neue idee, die sie im moment vertreten, ist, dass sie sagen, toleranz ist auch ideologie. und ein stück weit sehe ich natürlich, toleranz ist weniger als akzeptanz, es ist nicht die anerkennung.
Slavoj Žižek
yeah yeah.
yeah yeah.
Host
aber toleranz ist ja immerhin so etwas wie die anerkennung zumindest, dass es unterschiedliche positionen geben kann. warum sollte das ideologisch verbrämt sein, toleranz?
aber toleranz ist ja immerhin so etwas wie die anerkennung zumindest, dass es unterschiedliche positionen geben kann. warum sollte das ideologisch verbrämt sein, toleranz?
Slavoj Žižek
well, this idea came to me when i was once reading speeches of martin luther king. and i noticed that he never mentions tolerance. tolerance is for me a shine of this what i call the kulturisierung, kultur machen, culturalization of critical energy. how systematically today, for example, when you we talk about racismus, racism, we translate it into problems of tolerance, of harassment and so on. no, tolerance is simply... accepting distinctions. that's great. but i think there are nonetheless much more radical misunderstandings where there are conflicts, where there should be no tolerance. what do you mean by this? let me give an example. if i... were to think about the most stupid proverb that i. or weisheit, wisdom that i can imagine it would be that well-known multiculturalist saying. an enemy is just someone whom to whose story we were not ready to listen to, you know, like, i don't want to understand you, i fetishize you into a monster. well, my answer to this is really, ah, so hitler was our enemy because we were not listening to his story. no, there are real enemies, my god. second thing, i don't think that, and that's the problem with tolerance, that that when we have racist tensions and so on, that the right approach is we should just understand each other and so on and so on. you know why this doesn't work? first, it's an impossible task. how can i understand you when i probably don't even understand myself and so on? here, although i remain a radical leftist communist, i partially at least agree with a guy who is not an idiot, peter slotterijk, who says that we need much more more a new culture of discretion discretion. like for me, an ideal multicultural society is not i sit with my friends and we just try to understand each other. i would like to live in a big building. next door is a chinese, then a jew, then a muslim, then a latino american, then a black guy and we politely ignore each other. respectfully we'll help each other. and who knows from time to time there is a serious understanding. but i don't like this pressure, pressure of you know, we have to penetrate each other, understand each other.
well, this idea came to me when i was once reading speeches of martin luther king. and i noticed that he never mentions tolerance. tolerance is for me a shine of this what i call the kulturisierung, kultur machen, culturalization of critical energy. how systematically today, for example, when you we talk about racismus, racism, we translate it into problems of tolerance, of harassment and so on. no, tolerance is simply... accepting distinctions. that's great. but i think there are nonetheless much more radical misunderstandings where there are conflicts, where there should be no tolerance. what do you mean by this? let me give an example. if i... were to think about the most stupid proverb that i. or weisheit, wisdom that i can imagine it would be that well-known multiculturalist saying. an enemy is just someone whom to whose story we were not ready to listen to, you know, like, i don't want to understand you, i fetishize you into a monster. well, my answer to this is really, ah, so hitler was our enemy because we were not listening to his story. no, there are real enemies, my god. second thing, i don't think that, and that's the problem with tolerance, that that when we have racist tensions and so on, that the right approach is we should just understand each other and so on and so on. you know why this doesn't work? first, it's an impossible task. how can i understand you when i probably don't even understand myself and so on? here, although i remain a radical leftist communist, i partially at least agree with a guy who is not an idiot, peter slotterijk, who says that we need much more more a new culture of discretion discretion. like for me, an ideal multicultural society is not i sit with my friends and we just try to understand each other. i would like to live in a big building. next door is a chinese, then a jew, then a muslim, then a latino american, then a black guy and we politely ignore each other. respectfully we'll help each other. and who knows from time to time there is a serious understanding. but i don't like this pressure, pressure of you know, we have to penetrate each other, understand each other.
Host
ist nicht ihr ideal, das ist sozusagen auch die kritik an diesem multikulturalistischen optimismus, den sie im moment sehr skeptisch sehen. nehmen wir ein konkretes beispiel. in der schweiz gibt es gerade eine diskussion darüber, wie man damit umzugehen hat, dass zwei schüler sich geweigert haben, ihrer lehrerin die hands zu reichen.
ist nicht ihr ideal, das ist sozusagen auch die kritik an diesem multikulturalistischen optimismus, den sie im moment sehr skeptisch sehen. nehmen wir ein konkretes beispiel. in der schweiz gibt es gerade eine diskussion darüber, wie man damit umzugehen hat, dass zwei schüler sich geweigert haben, ihrer lehrerin die hands zu reichen.
Slavoj Žižek
i know.
i know.
Host
the
the
Slavoj Žižek
it's happening all around.
it's happening all around.
Host
mit verweis auf die religionsfreiheit. was würden sie denn in einer solchen situation rataten?
mit verweis auf die religionsfreiheit. was würden sie denn in einer solchen situation rataten?
Slavoj Žižek
this is a very good problem and here i'm often misunderstood where people accuse me to be islamophobic or whatever. no, my problem is this one. i think. it will turn out a catastrophe for the refugees if we, on behalf of you know, this paranoiac logic, if we talk about these problems openly, we serve the anti-migrant racist, we serve the enemy. we have to talk about this openly. people underestimate and we are now back at our starting point, ideology., ideology that matters is not big formulas, socialism, whatever. it's ideology. which is part of our daily life. ideology for me is how men treat women and women treat men in everyday life. even i developed in one of my famous examples that i repeat all the time how our toilets are structured. german toilet, where you smell your seat, at least in the old ones, you check it up. french toilets, the sheet disappears immediately and so on. even all our daily life is impregnate and here ideology is really difficult to change. ideology is in the utmost center of our daily life and here again problems emerge. let's face it. we have problems at this level. we have other problems like for me, it's not a problem when a muslim girl wants to be covered with a veil. i violently disagree with this. french legislation which prohibits that. but for me, it's a serious problem. what if family wants to force her to be covered? she doesn't want to.
this is a very good problem and here i'm often misunderstood where people accuse me to be islamophobic or whatever. no, my problem is this one. i think. it will turn out a catastrophe for the refugees if we, on behalf of you know, this paranoiac logic, if we talk about these problems openly, we serve the anti-migrant racist, we serve the enemy. we have to talk about this openly. people underestimate and we are now back at our starting point, ideology., ideology that matters is not big formulas, socialism, whatever. it's ideology. which is part of our daily life. ideology for me is how men treat women and women treat men in everyday life. even i developed in one of my famous examples that i repeat all the time how our toilets are structured. german toilet, where you smell your seat, at least in the old ones, you check it up. french toilets, the sheet disappears immediately and so on. even all our daily life is impregnate and here ideology is really difficult to change. ideology is in the utmost center of our daily life and here again problems emerge. let's face it. we have problems at this level. we have other problems like for me, it's not a problem when a muslim girl wants to be covered with a veil. i violently disagree with this. french legislation which prohibits that. but for me, it's a serious problem. what if family wants to force her to be covered? she doesn't want to.
Host
okay sie sagen schon mal, wir müssen dann erkennen, dass es probleme gibt. da würden ihnen wahrscheinlich viele zustimmen. aber noch einmal konkret dieses beispiel. was würden sie denn raten? würden sie die jungen zwingen, die hand zu geben oder würden sie sagen, nein, das ist gut?
okay sie sagen schon mal, wir müssen dann erkennen, dass es probleme gibt. da würden ihnen wahrscheinlich viele zustimmen. aber noch einmal konkret dieses beispiel. was würden sie denn raten? würden sie die jungen zwingen, die hand zu geben oder würden sie sagen, nein, das ist gut?
Slavoj Žižek
i would have to think precisely about this case, but my main point is let's talk about it openly and let's establish clear rules. this is the only way. like for example, if i go to my example, what do we do? do we help the girl, protect the girl from her family? because we must be clear about something.
i would have to think precisely about this case, but my main point is let's talk about it openly and let's establish clear rules. this is the only way. like for example, if i go to my example, what do we do? do we help the girl, protect the girl from her family? because we must be clear about something.
Host
okay
okay
Slavoj Žižek
if we protect the girl, then. the muslim family will be totally justified in saying, sorry, you don't tolerate our way of life, you are destroying our way of life because the way family relations work is the central ingredient of a certain way of life. so my point is... basically that we have to set the rules explicitly. and here i am, i'm sorry a little bit eurocentric like you can do this, this, this, this, at this level we stop.
if we protect the girl, then. the muslim family will be totally justified in saying, sorry, you don't tolerate our way of life, you are destroying our way of life because the way family relations work is the central ingredient of a certain way of life. so my point is... basically that we have to set the rules explicitly. and here i am, i'm sorry a little bit eurocentric like you can do this, this, this, this, at this level we stop.
Host
mm-hmm
mm-hmm
Slavoj Žižek
and of course the same goes for our fundamentalists and so on.
and of course the same goes for our fundamentalists and so on.
Host
da kommen wir zum zweiten punkt. sie sagen ja auch ein stück weit im moment, wir brauchen wieder so etwas wie eine europäische leitkultur. sie sagen auch, sie sind für einen starken eurozententrismus. was meinen sie damit?
da kommen wir zum zweiten punkt. sie sagen ja auch ein stück weit im moment, wir brauchen wieder so etwas wie eine europäische leitkultur. sie sagen auch, sie sind für einen starken eurozententrismus. was meinen sie damit?
Slavoj Žižek
i know. for some people this is a sheer provocation.
i know. for some people this is a sheer provocation.
Host
es ist zumindest auch überraschendes von ihnen zu hören.
es ist zumindest auch überraschendes von ihnen zu hören.
Slavoj Žižek
no, no, but i'm here very precise. those even who criticize eurocentrismus, are they aware that the entire conceptual apparatus that they use is a european one? i mean,
no, no, but i'm here very precise. those even who criticize eurocentrismus, are they aware that the entire conceptual apparatus that they use is a european one? i mean,
Host
wie zum beispiel sich berufen auf.
wie zum beispiel sich berufen auf.
Slavoj Žižek
the terms of equality, of gender equality and so on. this is philosophically unthinkable without the cartesian subject, which is the first purely abstract subject. that's why many followers of descartes in his time already were women. they said, cogito doesn't have a sex. we identify. so what i'm saying is that the great thing about europe, it's true, europeans did many horrible things, from colonization to gulag, holocaust, whatever. but at the same time, the only conceptual apparatus that i see to overcome europe is again the progressive european legacy. this egalitarian european legacy, i claim, is something absolutely unique. you find it already in christianity. i'm an atheist. but you know what does it mean, heiliger geist, holy spirit? it means the possibility of an egalitarian community where hier links are suspended. that's why jesus christ says, you know, if you don't hate your mother, father your he doesn't mean you should he he means as part of our community you should suspend all those links. and this is this is for me something unique, the concluding thought. why is this so important today? because in today's political struggle to criticize eurocentrism is very fashionable, especially by countries which are not exactly the most democratic ones. today's global capitalism is no longer dominated by european ideology. the most dynamic capitalist countries today are what? china, singapore and so on, so-called, it's a wrong name, asian values, which really means authoritarian capitalism. figures like erdogan, putin, all around a new authoritarian capitalism is emerging. and they fully support critique of eurocentrism, which means we can dispense of this egalitarian legacy.
the terms of equality, of gender equality and so on. this is philosophically unthinkable without the cartesian subject, which is the first purely abstract subject. that's why many followers of descartes in his time already were women. they said, cogito doesn't have a sex. we identify. so what i'm saying is that the great thing about europe, it's true, europeans did many horrible things, from colonization to gulag, holocaust, whatever. but at the same time, the only conceptual apparatus that i see to overcome europe is again the progressive european legacy. this egalitarian european legacy, i claim, is something absolutely unique. you find it already in christianity. i'm an atheist. but you know what does it mean, heiliger geist, holy spirit? it means the possibility of an egalitarian community where hier links are suspended. that's why jesus christ says, you know, if you don't hate your mother, father your he doesn't mean you should he he means as part of our community you should suspend all those links. and this is this is for me something unique, the concluding thought. why is this so important today? because in today's political struggle to criticize eurocentrism is very fashionable, especially by countries which are not exactly the most democratic ones. today's global capitalism is no longer dominated by european ideology. the most dynamic capitalist countries today are what? china, singapore and so on, so-called, it's a wrong name, asian values, which really means authoritarian capitalism. figures like erdogan, putin, all around a new authoritarian capitalism is emerging. and they fully support critique of eurocentrism, which means we can dispense of this egalitarian legacy.
Host
und diesem moment sagen sie auch, der kapitalismus sozusagen ohne das aufklärerische erbe, also ohne die idee von gleichheit pass.
und diesem moment sagen sie auch, der kapitalismus sozusagen ohne das aufklärerische erbe, also ohne die idee von gleichheit pass.
Slavoj Žižek
this is what is winning today.
this is what is winning today.
Host
und das ist sozusagen der kapitalismus, der wirklich das problem darstellt. kapitalismus mit eurozententrismus ist für sie nicht so problematisch.
und das ist sozusagen der kapitalismus, der wirklich das problem darstellt. kapitalismus mit eurozententrismus ist für sie nicht so problematisch.
Slavoj Žižek
no,, no, no, no, no, i'm here more of a pessimist. i'm claiming that global capitalism as such moves at a universal level where... it's neutral towards which ideology, eurocentric, confucian sustains it, but gradually it functions better and better without european democratic values, which is why i paradoxically think that till now, there was some kind of a natural alliance between democracy and capitalism. there were 10-20 years of dictatorship, but like in chile, in korea, but then when things start to move, there is a demand for democracy. but this eternal marriage is dissolving now today capital so there will be we will have more and more attention. today capitalism will be able less and less to afford i'm not talking about some marxist authentic democracy but simple bourgeois democracy that we have now is less and less operative. even when we have it, it's less and less relevant. look at all this agreements tisa, ttip and so on. these are crucial ag will determine up to the details the economic mechanisms of our life, they are negotiated practically in secrecy. without wikileaks, we wouldn't even know about them.
no,, no, no, no, no, i'm here more of a pessimist. i'm claiming that global capitalism as such moves at a universal level where... it's neutral towards which ideology, eurocentric, confucian sustains it, but gradually it functions better and better without european democratic values, which is why i paradoxically think that till now, there was some kind of a natural alliance between democracy and capitalism. there were 10-20 years of dictatorship, but like in chile, in korea, but then when things start to move, there is a demand for democracy. but this eternal marriage is dissolving now today capital so there will be we will have more and more attention. today capitalism will be able less and less to afford i'm not talking about some marxist authentic democracy but simple bourgeois democracy that we have now is less and less operative. even when we have it, it's less and less relevant. look at all this agreements tisa, ttip and so on. these are crucial ag will determine up to the details the economic mechanisms of our life, they are negotiated practically in secrecy. without wikileaks, we wouldn't even know about them.
Host
dass ihnen sehr, sehr viele folgen werden, wenn sie den eurozententrismus so beschreiben, das ja ungefähr auch das, was die leute gemeint haben, wenn sie dauernd betont haben, sie möchten die werte der offenen gesellschaft verteidigen. eurozentrismus klingt halt kulturimperialistisch und das meinen sie ja nicht. aber bleiben wir mal bei diesem punkt, wenn sie diese form...
dass ihnen sehr, sehr viele folgen werden, wenn sie den eurozententrismus so beschreiben, das ja ungefähr auch das, was die leute gemeint haben, wenn sie dauernd betont haben, sie möchten die werte der offenen gesellschaft verteidigen. eurozentrismus klingt halt kulturimperialistisch und das meinen sie ja nicht. aber bleiben wir mal bei diesem punkt, wenn sie diese form...
Slavoj Žižek
of course there is a tension in european legacy, but i claim that nonetheless our notions of emancipation, my god, i'm a communist, if there ever was a eurocentric idea it's communism.
of course there is a tension in european legacy, but i claim that nonetheless our notions of emancipation, my god, i'm a communist, if there ever was a eurocentric idea it's communism.
Host
lassen sie mich noch einmal zum punkt vorher zurück. wenn sie bei diesem eurozentrismus bleiben, möchte ich trotzdem noch einmal mit ihnen darüber sprechen, wie rechtfertigen sie denn das? also normalerweise würde man ja sagen, man ist dann sehr schnell auch bei einer ideologie. oder zumindest müssen sie zugestehen, dass sie an so etwas glauben wie universelle werte. sie kann...
lassen sie mich noch einmal zum punkt vorher zurück. wenn sie bei diesem eurozentrismus bleiben, möchte ich trotzdem noch einmal mit ihnen darüber sprechen, wie rechtfertigen sie denn das? also normalerweise würde man ja sagen, man ist dann sehr schnell auch bei einer ideologie. oder zumindest müssen sie zugestehen, dass sie an so etwas glauben wie universelle werte. sie kann...
Slavoj Žižek
i do believe i think that nope.
i do believe i think that nope.
Host
was ist dann da sozusagen die letztbegründung? im postideologischen zeital, da haben wir uns eigentlich daran gewöhnt? und.
was ist dann da sozusagen die letztbegründung? im postideologischen zeital, da haben wir uns eigentlich daran gewöhnt? und.
Slavoj Žižek
this.
this.
Host
wir verzichten auf netegründungen.
wir verzichten auf netegründungen.
Slavoj Žižek
aber...
aber...
Host
no, i don't.
no, i don't.
Slavoj Žižek
i don't.
i don't.
Host
sie brauchen eine.
sie brauchen eine.
Slavoj Žižek
physician
physician
Host
was, was ist ihre letzte begründung? woher kommt ihr universalismus?
was, was ist ihre letzte begründung? woher kommt ihr universalismus?
Slavoj Žižek
universalismus kommt aus cartesianisischen subjekt, which is an empty universal subject. and if we want to reach freedom, we have to go through this zero point. and this is not eurocent in a racist sense. you know who is my hero? i've written about it. i have many black friends. we talk about him in the united states. malcolm x. he was a genius. you know, what does x mean? x means we don't have a family name, we lack our roots. but his genius was to see that. this is not just a handicap so that now black people should go to africa and search for their roots. the genius of malcolm x was to see how this x the void, i don't have roots foundation, is is also a new open space for freedom that we have to go through this zero point. we are x. our european name for this x is cartesian subject. and all radical emancipatory movement around the world work in this way like a mega to saint-domingue, toussaint l'ouverture, haiti revolution. what was it? it was kind of a hegelian repetition. hegelian means repetition is more authentic than the original of the french revolution. it's a mega event black slaves rebelling in haiti they didn't want their authentic roots. they wanted to be more french revolutionary french than french themselves. in this sense, for me, eurocentrism is the only possible form of true non-eurocentric universalism. you have to go through this cartesian zero.
universalismus kommt aus cartesianisischen subjekt, which is an empty universal subject. and if we want to reach freedom, we have to go through this zero point. and this is not eurocent in a racist sense. you know who is my hero? i've written about it. i have many black friends. we talk about him in the united states. malcolm x. he was a genius. you know, what does x mean? x means we don't have a family name, we lack our roots. but his genius was to see that. this is not just a handicap so that now black people should go to africa and search for their roots. the genius of malcolm x was to see how this x the void, i don't have roots foundation, is is also a new open space for freedom that we have to go through this zero point. we are x. our european name for this x is cartesian subject. and all radical emancipatory movement around the world work in this way like a mega to saint-domingue, toussaint l'ouverture, haiti revolution. what was it? it was kind of a hegelian repetition. hegelian means repetition is more authentic than the original of the french revolution. it's a mega event black slaves rebelling in haiti they didn't want their authentic roots. they wanted to be more french revolutionary french than french themselves. in this sense, for me, eurocentrism is the only possible form of true non-eurocentric universalism. you have to go through this cartesian zero.
Host
sie sagen ja an einer gewissen stelle, philosophie muss in erster linie verwirren. ich gebe zu, ich bin jetzt ein bisschen verwirrt. machen sie noch einmal vielleicht das deutlich. was meinen sie mit diesem cartesianismus? und dann kommt hegel ins spiel. es sind ganz viele verschiedene dimensionen, die sie ansprechen. also menschenrechte beispielsweise. wie würden sie einer person die menschenrechte erklären und rechtfertigen? was ist die rechtfertigung der menschenrechte?
sie sagen ja an einer gewissen stelle, philosophie muss in erster linie verwirren. ich gebe zu, ich bin jetzt ein bisschen verwirrt. machen sie noch einmal vielleicht das deutlich. was meinen sie mit diesem cartesianismus? und dann kommt hegel ins spiel. es sind ganz viele verschiedene dimensionen, die sie ansprechen. also menschenrechte beispielsweise. wie würden sie einer person die menschenrechte erklären und rechtfertigen? was ist die rechtfertigung der menschenrechte?
Slavoj Žižek
i am well aware, i've written about it. i don't know how much you want.
i am well aware, i've written about it. i don't know how much you want.
Host
für alle, diecher nicht angewlesen haben.
für alle, diecher nicht angewlesen haben.
Slavoj Žižek
our notion of menschenrechte is secretly eurocentric. they may appear neutral, but effectively.
our notion of menschenrechte is secretly eurocentric. they may appear neutral, but effectively.
Host
date.
date.
Slavoj Žižek
privilege.
privilege.
Host
yeah.
yeah.
Slavoj Žižek
but i will give you precisely this example, but did you notice how? this was like that in the beginning, but then precisely because the forum is abstract. universal human rights. it began to explode at the very beginning. end of 18th century, mary wollstonecraft, why not we women also? then blacks in haiti, why not also we blacks? and so on. you see, that's great about europe. you have human rights as ideological, but immediately it explodes into a more radical universality. or what does it mean cartesian subject? i once spoke with judith butler and we agreed upon this that. her type of. subjectivity and for her this is not abstract theory, this is daily struggle of women what is now exploding in all this fight for transgenderism and so on. what's the idea? the idea is that our biological identity what appears as biological or sexual identity is not simply a matter of brutal biology. are, sexual positions are socially constructed and so on and so on. i claim this is unthinkable without a cartesian subject because it means that you or me are not in our nature man or woman. we are this abstract zero point which can turn culturally in this way, in that way, transgenderism to. day for me the greatest practical embodiment of cartesian cogito.
but i will give you precisely this example, but did you notice how? this was like that in the beginning, but then precisely because the forum is abstract. universal human rights. it began to explode at the very beginning. end of 18th century, mary wollstonecraft, why not we women also? then blacks in haiti, why not also we blacks? and so on. you see, that's great about europe. you have human rights as ideological, but immediately it explodes into a more radical universality. or what does it mean cartesian subject? i once spoke with judith butler and we agreed upon this that. her type of. subjectivity and for her this is not abstract theory, this is daily struggle of women what is now exploding in all this fight for transgenderism and so on. what's the idea? the idea is that our biological identity what appears as biological or sexual identity is not simply a matter of brutal biology. are, sexual positions are socially constructed and so on and so on. i claim this is unthinkable without a cartesian subject because it means that you or me are not in our nature man or woman. we are this abstract zero point which can turn culturally in this way, in that way, transgenderism to. day for me the greatest practical embodiment of cartesian cogito.
Host
gibt es trotzdem so etwas wie das wahre ich?
gibt es trotzdem so etwas wie das wahre ich?
Slavoj Žižek
no, but it gibt... das wahre abgrund. i mean mean it seriously. the big, you know, that's why for jacques lacan, who was my teacher. you know, usual psych notion it's totally misunderstood is that women are hysterics could just wear masks. yeah, but they are for lacan more authentic because... even schelling says this, that. women wear masks, but in this way they are closer to the truth of subjectivity, what hegel would have called selbstbende negativität, which it means there is nothing behind the mask. women are this pure void. we men are stupid. we think we have a true self. you women are wilder, you know we don't have a true self.
no, but it gibt... das wahre abgrund. i mean mean it seriously. the big, you know, that's why for jacques lacan, who was my teacher. you know, usual psych notion it's totally misunderstood is that women are hysterics could just wear masks. yeah, but they are for lacan more authentic because... even schelling says this, that. women wear masks, but in this way they are closer to the truth of subjectivity, what hegel would have called selbstbende negativität, which it means there is nothing behind the mask. women are this pure void. we men are stupid. we think we have a true self. you women are wilder, you know we don't have a true self.
Host
das lasse ich mal also stehen.
das lasse ich mal also stehen.
Slavoj Žižek
so it's not sorry, as otto weininger said, woman is a failed man.
so it's not sorry, as otto weininger said, woman is a failed man.
Host
i sometimes
i sometimes
Slavoj Žižek
dream it would be like that
dream it would be like that
Host
ich ziehehen sonst die brille wieder an. herr schk, sie sind jetzt 67 jahre alt.
ich ziehehen sonst die brille wieder an. herr schk, sie sind jetzt 67 jahre alt.
Slavoj Žižek
warum haben sie das gesagt? noch schlimmer, do want me to talk to you?
warum haben sie das gesagt? noch schlimmer, do want me to talk to you?
Host
like
like
Slavoj Žižek
your know.
your know.
Host
you see.
you see.
Slavoj Žižek
now i will be ironic. that's wrong with feminism. you know, women get the rights and at the end you talk like this to me, how old i am.
now i will be ironic. that's wrong with feminism. you know, women get the rights and at the end you talk like this to me, how old i am.
Host
ich wollte sie nur fragen, herr chek, sie haben so viel energie. gibt es für sie so etwas auch wie das ideal der gelassenheit? das ein ideal, das viele menschen.
ich wollte sie nur fragen, herr chek, sie haben so viel energie. gibt es für sie so etwas auch wie das ideal der gelassenheit? das ein ideal, das viele menschen.
Slavoj Žižek
op.
op.
Host
no.
no.
Slavoj Žižek
wagner, when you ask me this question, this stupid question, you know, if you go to some stupid island, one piece of music that you would take there. schönberg, gurre-lieder
wagner, when you ask me this question, this stupid question, you know, if you go to some stupid island, one piece of music that you would take there. schönberg, gurre-lieder
Host
schönberg?
schönberg?
Slavoj Žižek
arnold schönberg.
arnold schönberg.
Host
mer.
mer.
Slavoj Žižek
gurre-lieder, this great piece which is very interesting because
gurre-lieder, this great piece which is very interesting because
Host
si.
si.
Slavoj Žižek
yeah, but i don't know why. i fall for it absolutely. no, no, you know what's my tragedy? i'm an old reactionary 60s reactionary. i think that everything that ever happened in rock music happened between 65 and 75. and it is just. so i'm for 40 years returning to classical music. everything happened when... like i like this fight with my friend. my best friend mladen dolar claims schubert, i claim no schumann and we have
yeah, but i don't know why. i fall for it absolutely. no, no, you know what's my tragedy? i'm an old reactionary 60s reactionary. i think that everything that ever happened in rock music happened between 65 and 75. and it is just. so i'm for 40 years returning to classical music. everything happened when... like i like this fight with my friend. my best friend mladen dolar claims schubert, i claim no schumann and we have
Host
aber eine andere große liebe gilt ja wagner. und sie sagen immer mal wieder, was sie extrem gerne tun würde, wäre, mal den pasival zu inszenieren. wann tun sie es?
aber eine andere große liebe gilt ja wagner. und sie sagen immer mal wieder, was sie extrem gerne tun würde, wäre, mal den pasival zu inszenieren. wann tun sie es?
Slavoj Žižek
i don't know... but you know why wagner? fascinates me because of course, as far as we can judge, as a person he was a total pig. no doubt. he was anti-semitic in his work. but listen what he does in his work. anti-seemitic. wait a minute. the main type of wagnerian hero, from fliegender holländer up to amfortas in parsifal. it's clearly a figure of wandering jew. it's open. wagner himself designated fliegender holländer as ahasver des ozeans. you remember wotan after valkyrie becomes wanderer. so wagner's basic problem is that of a wandering jew. you roam around, condemned to eternity. you want to die, you cannot die. we are back at that stephen king topic of the undead. so wagner is for me a wonderful example of how, and it's a sad example of how you can be a pig. as a person but you are an authentic artist and your work says a different thing.
i don't know... but you know why wagner? fascinates me because of course, as far as we can judge, as a person he was a total pig. no doubt. he was anti-semitic in his work. but listen what he does in his work. anti-seemitic. wait a minute. the main type of wagnerian hero, from fliegender holländer up to amfortas in parsifal. it's clearly a figure of wandering jew. it's open. wagner himself designated fliegender holländer as ahasver des ozeans. you remember wotan after valkyrie becomes wanderer. so wagner's basic problem is that of a wandering jew. you roam around, condemned to eternity. you want to die, you cannot die. we are back at that stephen king topic of the undead. so wagner is for me a wonderful example of how, and it's a sad example of how you can be a pig. as a person but you are an authentic artist and your work says a different thing.
Host
mm-hmm gibt es auch so etwas wie die sehnsucht danach ist jetzt nicht im alter, sie sind noch überhaupt nicht alt, aber vielleicht, wenn man so ein bisschen weiter noch jetzt blickt, es ruhigergehen zu lassen, kann man sich das überhaupt vorstellen für sie?
mm-hmm gibt es auch so etwas wie die sehnsucht danach ist jetzt nicht im alter, sie sind noch überhaupt nicht alt, aber vielleicht, wenn man so ein bisschen weiter noch jetzt blickt, es ruhigergehen zu lassen, kann man sich das überhaupt vorstellen für sie?
Slavoj Žižek
no, the only thing that i can say is that i write. short political books, but more. out of a kind of civic duty. i feel always uneasy, like i'm saying something that i really don't know about. others should be saying it. my true love is thick books on hegel and so on. and this is what i did with that book, my favorite, weniger als nichts. it's over 1,000 pages. and that's my desire now. the only way that i reflect that i'm getting old is i must do now or never the big work.
no, the only thing that i can say is that i write. short political books, but more. out of a kind of civic duty. i feel always uneasy, like i'm saying something that i really don't know about. others should be saying it. my true love is thick books on hegel and so on. and this is what i did with that book, my favorite, weniger als nichts. it's over 1,000 pages. and that's my desire now. the only way that i reflect that i'm getting old is i must do now or never the big work.
Host
und sie sagen, sie hätten so etwas wie eine bürgerpflicht, die kleinen politischen bücher zu schreiben. das erstaunt mich. sie, die eigentlich doch immer finden, moral, das ist irgendwie auch nur ideologie. sie fühlen sich verpflichtet.
und sie sagen, sie hätten so etwas wie eine bürgerpflicht, die kleinen politischen bücher zu schreiben. das erstaunt mich. sie, die eigentlich doch immer finden, moral, das ist irgendwie auch nur ideologie. sie fühlen sich verpflichtet.
Slavoj Žižek
i'm a totally a classical moralist here. believe me or not. for example, i got involved into a comic conflict in this way. you remember when roman polanski was arrested? here, my god, you did it in schweiz. yes, yes,. some people thought and referred to me as did i protest that, okay, it was stupid to arrest him. but in a way. polanski did a very nasty thing, you know, nonetheless, so i don't give this sympathy great artist we should pardon.
i'm a totally a classical moralist here. believe me or not. for example, i got involved into a comic conflict in this way. you remember when roman polanski was arrested? here, my god, you did it in schweiz. yes, yes,. some people thought and referred to me as did i protest that, okay, it was stupid to arrest him. but in a way. polanski did a very nasty thing, you know, nonetheless, so i don't give this sympathy great artist we should pardon.
Host
und wem wem gegenüber sind sie denn verpflichtet, wenn sie solche bücher schreiben müssen?
und wem wem gegenüber sind sie denn verpflichtet, wenn sie solche bücher schreiben müssen?
Slavoj Žižek
it's a kind of a general. bürger,itizenverpflichtung. but nonetheless, i... i'm quite a moralist here in the sense that, my god, this will sound almost protestant theolog, it max weber's sin, i think it will sound horrible. each of us has an inner beruf that you are... gerufen, k.
it's a kind of a general. bürger,itizenverpflichtung. but nonetheless, i... i'm quite a moralist here in the sense that, my god, this will sound almost protestant theolog, it max weber's sin, i think it will sound horrible. each of us has an inner beruf that you are... gerufen, k.
Host
okay
okay
Slavoj Žižek
and you
and you
Host
much.
much.
Slavoj Žižek
discover this and follow this up to death. and if you don't succeed in doing this, your life is lost. it's a very traditional morality, it cannot be more.
discover this and follow this up to death. and if you don't succeed in doing this, your life is lost. it's a very traditional morality, it cannot be more.
Host
sie haben ihre berufung gefunden.
sie haben ihre berufung gefunden.
Slavoj Žižek
yeah, this is what i like. you know, i had a short period in the first years of my gymnasium, high school, when i wanted to be a movie director. then i saw all the masterpieces and i accepted i too stupid to do that. and then already when i was like 17 years, i knew philosophy. and i'm very happy for this. in spite of all traumas of my private life, i am doing what i want to do and i find it not happy. happiness is for idiots. i find it deeply satisfying doing this. what more can you achieve? und die dreckiger erde oder.
yeah, this is what i like. you know, i had a short period in the first years of my gymnasium, high school, when i wanted to be a movie director. then i saw all the masterpieces and i accepted i too stupid to do that. and then already when i was like 17 years, i knew philosophy. and i'm very happy for this. in spite of all traumas of my private life, i am doing what i want to do and i find it not happy. happiness is for idiots. i find it deeply satisfying doing this. what more can you achieve? und die dreckiger erde oder.
Host
haben sie sich irgendwann im laufe ihres lebens irgendwo... theoretisch gesehen, geirrt, gibt es positionen, von denen sie sagen, die waren falsch, die würde ich nicht mehr vertreten? das.
haben sie sich irgendwann im laufe ihres lebens irgendwo... theoretisch gesehen, geirrt, gibt es positionen, von denen sie sagen, die waren falsch, die würde ich nicht mehr vertreten? das.
Slavoj Žižek
of course, i am subtly changing my position, but basically it's very mysterious. when i was 23, 24, with a couple of my friends, we discovered this axis, not rome-berlin, but hegel-lom. and we are there even now. we are very happy here. i mean, we see the deadlocks. we are changing our position, but the fundamental coordinates of our work are the same for 30 years.
of course, i am subtly changing my position, but basically it's very mysterious. when i was 23, 24, with a couple of my friends, we discovered this axis, not rome-berlin, but hegel-lom. and we are there even now. we are very happy here. i mean, we see the deadlocks. we are changing our position, but the fundamental coordinates of our work are the same for 30 years.
Host
das heißt, es bleibt auch alles irgendwie mehr oder weniger dasselbe für sie. sie bauen immer wieder auf, was sie...
das heißt, es bleibt auch alles irgendwie mehr oder weniger dasselbe für sie. sie bauen immer wieder auf, was sie...
Slavoj Žižek
yes. nonetheless, wait a minute, but nonetheless, there are within these radical changes. you know, for example, another of my lieblings philosophen, the same as with schelling. ja, dasselbe, aber but the change from early schelling identitätsphilosophie to schelling von weltalter and so on, it's my gott, such a tremendous earth-shaking shift.
yes. nonetheless, wait a minute, but nonetheless, there are within these radical changes. you know, for example, another of my lieblings philosophen, the same as with schelling. ja, dasselbe, aber but the change from early schelling identitätsphilosophie to schelling von weltalter and so on, it's my gott, such a tremendous earth-shaking shift.
Host
and
and
Slavoj Žižek
i think which hegel is the same.
i think which hegel is the same.
Host
uh-huh
uh-huh
Slavoj Žižek
so no, no, this doesn't mean we just repeat the same point. we... just struggle with the same grundproblem. but come out always with different answers.
so no, no, this doesn't mean we just repeat the same point. we... just struggle with the same grundproblem. but come out always with different answers.
Host
sie haben einmal gesagt, sie mögen eigentlich interviews nicht so sehr. war es schlimm?
sie haben einmal gesagt, sie mögen eigentlich interviews nicht so sehr. war es schlimm?
Slavoj Žižek
because i'm afraid of interviews that i will be, you know... i'll put it like this, this will maybe surprise you. you know why i talk so much? because i have ein minderwertigkeitskomplex. i'm afraid that if i stop in. if if i stop talking for a second. you will get a breathing space to really listen to what i'm saying and you will see that it's bullshit. so to prevent you this distance from, i have to talk all the time to distract you so that you will not step back and say, oh my god, this is bullshit. i have a great mistrust into myself. no, no, it's purely, it's not that i'm so full of myself that i have, it's fear that if i stop talking, you may see.
because i'm afraid of interviews that i will be, you know... i'll put it like this, this will maybe surprise you. you know why i talk so much? because i have ein minderwertigkeitskomplex. i'm afraid that if i stop in. if if i stop talking for a second. you will get a breathing space to really listen to what i'm saying and you will see that it's bullshit. so to prevent you this distance from, i have to talk all the time to distract you so that you will not step back and say, oh my god, this is bullshit. i have a great mistrust into myself. no, no, it's purely, it's not that i'm so full of myself that i have, it's fear that if i stop talking, you may see.
Host
fast schon wie bei augustinus, wir enden mit einem bekenntnis. ich danke ihnen sehr, slavoek. vielen, vielen dank.
fast schon wie bei augustinus, wir enden mit einem bekenntnis. ich danke ihnen sehr, slavoek. vielen, vielen dank.
Slavoj Žižek
dan danke ihnen. danke.
dan danke ihnen. danke.
Host
thema der ideologieiekritik geht es jetzt in der sternstunde kunst gleich weiter. wir zeigen ihnen eine bbc-dokumentation über das musikduo daft punk. die roboterähnlichen musiker erobern die welt, ohne je ihr gesicht zu enthüllen und hebeln mit ihrer kunst alle gängigen mechanismen des musik-business aus. die sternschule philosophie blickt nächste woche nach großbritannien. nach der abstimmung um den brexit diskutiert mein kollege stefan klapproth mit heike simon und ulrike guérot, wie es auf der insel weitergeht und was der entscheid für europa bedeutet. ich danke ihnen fürs interesse. und wünsche ihnen einen schönen sonntag.
thema der ideologieiekritik geht es jetzt in der sternstunde kunst gleich weiter. wir zeigen ihnen eine bbc-dokumentation über das musikduo daft punk. die roboterähnlichen musiker erobern die welt, ohne je ihr gesicht zu enthüllen und hebeln mit ihrer kunst alle gängigen mechanismen des musik-business aus. die sternschule philosophie blickt nächste woche nach großbritannien. nach der abstimmung um den brexit diskutiert mein kollege stefan klapproth mit heike simon und ulrike guérot, wie es auf der insel weitergeht und was der entscheid für europa bedeutet. ich danke ihnen fürs interesse. und wünsche ihnen einen schönen sonntag.